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Tragedia na Przełęczy Diatłowa (1/2 luty 1959 r.)


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#901 fortyck

fortyck

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Napisano 15 kwiecień 2018 - 22:06

Semen Zolotaryov

 

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#902 fortyck

fortyck

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Napisano 18 kwiecień 2018 - 15:00

HOW MANY BODIES DIED ON KHOLAT SYAKHL 9 OR 11?

Dyatlov junkies that can't read the materials in Russian and can't make their way through the woodpeckers (Dyatlov group), pancakes (Blinov), smoker (Kourikov), Queen (Korolev), Honey expert (Med. expert) and one man that constantly raise from the dead (Vozrozhdenny), still ask and with a reason, for opinion on sources that are incomprehensible.

 

I am taking the time to translate humanly the documents so we don't end with narration but encourage everybody to form an opinion.

 

Until we find a new way of looking at this case, we can repeat till we turn blue what has been already said to no avail.

 

And you can't convince people in your point of view, they need to have a personal access and reading of the facts.

 

If we can speak of facts on this case at all.

 

So here is the famous interview that prompted the question how many bodies were brought for autopsy.

 

You will find links to 2 more related interviews - with Prudkova and Taranova, and the 2 letters Solters wrote to Yudin.

 

You read it and let me know what you think.

 

My next publication will be of another sighting of unaccounted corpse of a girl with long dark hair next to the tent.

 

She seems to reappear.

 

 
 
INTERVIEW WITH FORMER NURSE H-240 IN 1959.
 
SOLTER P. I. AND V. KONSTANTINOVICH ON DYATLOV PASS CASE 04-05 JULY 2008

 

 
 
 

© NGO "INTERNET CENTER of the Dyatlov group tragedy", 2008.

 

The text of the conversation of the "Center for Civil Investigation of the Dyatlov Pass tragedy" (NAVIG, Verden), Tuapse and others with the former nurse N-240 in 1959 Solter Pelageya Ivanovna and Victor Konstantinovich on the case of Dyatlov Pass incident 04-05 July 2008

 

The text is based on a video of the conversation.

 

Copyright for sound recording and this text have:

Center for Civil Investigation of the Dyatlov Pass tragedy and Tuapse.

 

The text is recorded and edited by Verden, NAVIG and Tuapse.

 

 

* Clicking on an image will bring up the original photo

 

 

- 1 -

 

NAVIG: What Pelageya Ivanovna will say will be filmed on video so it can serve in court as an evidence. 
VK: This is a case that even parents still do not know how their children died. There are many contradictions ... 
NAVIG: You lived there at this time? 
VK: The administration was very strange at that time. I lived in Ivdel and worked in the establishment of the H-240. 
NAVIG: In what capacity? 
VK: I was later a senior engineer, and before that, in the 59th, I was the inspector of the State ... Soyuzgosles Inspectorate. I was in charge of logging, procurers, consumers ... 
NAVIG: Did you know the Mansi? Kurikov, Anyamov? 
VK: I did not know them in person. Saw them in the press, in the local newspaper, and in the city... I am familiar with the life of Mansi to some extent. I myself am a mushroom picker, in these areas where the mountains begin, between Ivdel and Polunochnoe, there is a road to these mountains to the north ... 
PI: This is where you come from? (photos on the table are brought by the Center) 
NAVIG: Yudin gave us this... Is this you in the photo? 
PI: (nods).

 

Dyatlov-pass-Pelageya-Ivanovna-Solter-01
Pelageya Ivanovna Solter

 

VK: We can give you a lot of medical photos. She was the Head nurse of the surgical department. 
NAVIG: Prudkova? 
VK: Yes, Prudkova. Prudkov was a surgeon ... 
TUAPSE: Civilian or military? 
VK: He was famous, very conscientious, hardworking, accepted people ... 
PI: Such a good man! And I worked with him.
VERDEN (asks again): Was he a military surgeon or civilian? 
VK: He was a certified? 
TUAPSE: What is "certified"? 
VK: "Certified" means doctors who worked in the institution, in the camp area - the hospital was full, there was a staff ... Then they started to certify, there are all surgeons and nurses ... 
TUAPSE: Was the hospital civil or a military department ? 
VK: No, it was special, for the establishment of the N-240 Ministry of the Interior of the USSR. The Ministry of Internal Affairs had great power at that time. 
NAVIG: It used to be Ivdellag. 
VK: They did not even submit to the hill, but to the camp management, well, to some extent, the KGB. 
NAVIG: KGB directly? 
VK: No, the Ministry of Internal Affairs 
NAVIG: In the year 59, I was transferred to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and before that it was Ivdellag ... 
NAVIG: We want Pelageya Ivanovna to tell us about the Dyatlov group. What happened, in what order, how did it worked back then.
TUAPSE: Maybe you will tell, how did you get to know them? Did you ever meet them? 
VK: You know, she can be mistaken, her memory is not the same ... But I remember them. We lived near the Headquarters. And there was a bus station. When I went to work, there were all these tourists who came there and waited the bus with their backpacks, 5 or 10 at a time. That's where she saw them. 
NAVIG: Here they are, 9 people. Do you remember anyone? (a photo) 
VK: No, she was not know them in person. 
PI: Did they all die? Well, you say "you don't remember" ... We were called with Prudkov. I washed, and Prudkov helped the bodies to be dress ... Then they took them to the car and drove them to the airfield. And they were sent directly to Sverdlovsk in coffins. And they were buried in Sverdlovsk. Without relatives. 
NAVIG: Was there an autopsy? 
PI: Prudkov only examined, described. I washed them, wiped them ...

 

- 2 -

 

VK: Allow me? The fact is that according to Matveeva's book the autopsy was done in Ivdel. She says that the autopsy was not done in Ivdel. It was a preliminary preparation for them, probably for an autopsy ... And the autopsy was done somewhere else, it was not known where. Or maybe in the city hospital ... 
PI: No, they did not do it in the city. They were sent to Sverdlovsk by airplanes. 
VK: No, it wasn't in Sverdlovsk, according to the book that they did it in Ivdel. 
PI: We washed them here ... 
NAVIG: Pelageya Ivanovna ... 
TUAPSE: And how do you know that they were sent to Sverdlovsk then? 
VK: Yes, because she thinks that it was all ... 
NAVIG: Pelageya Ivanovna, do you remember their external appearance? Look, here is what they looked like in the morgue N-240. Were they like that? Do you remember? 
PI: I can't recognize them, of course. 
TUAPSE: How about the degree of decomposition? 
NAVIG: Or is it not them? 
VERDEN: Are these them? Did you see them? Did you wash them off? You washed them in this way? 
PI: We washed them in the morgue ... 
NAVIG: No, but their appearance? Is this the Dyatlov group ... 
VERDEN: Did they look like this? Did they? 
VK: These was them. Only she says that they were very dirty. 
VERDEN: You see here, there is great damage, there is no face ... 
NAVIG: Well, they were found in a creek, they were brought like that... 
PI: Prudkov described them. 
NAVIG: Nothing is mentioned about this in the case files. 
VK: I read about Vozrozhdenny ... 
PI: Prudkov described them, washed them and put them in coffins. Then they were send on an airplane to Sverdlovsk where they were buried. 
VK: Listen, and why there is no signature of the second surgeon, German surname ... 
NAVIG: Yes, there isn't. Was he there? 
VK: I do not know, Matveeva writes ... 
NAVIG: And was Ganz with Prudkov? Pelageya Ivanovna, did you know him? 
VK: They didn't know. They didn't know Vozrozhdenny either. They just prepared and they wre taken away ... Where were they taken? Maybe they were taken to the city hospital. Maybe they took them somewhere else ... 
NAVIG: Victor Konstantinovich, we assume that there were two groups of bodies, and they did not know each other. This is what we trying to find out. Did you work with the Dyatlov group or the other people? And who did Ganz and Vozrozhdenny perform autopsies on? 
PI: We did not do autopsy on anyone. 
NAVIG: No one? But the act is, which was opened in the N-240, Vozrozhdenny and Ivanov - the investigator ... 
PI: We did not do autopsies on anyone. Prudkov only examined, described, I washed them all ... 
NAVIG: Were they wearing clothes? 
PI: They were wearing clothes. They were very dirty. 
NAVIG: And here you write that there were two girls and one guy ... So were there two girls? 
PI: One girl was found with the guys, and the second girl was found after 2 or 3 days. 
NAVIG: Or a month? 
VK: Month! No, I said "two days"? 
NAVIG: Months or a days? This is very important. 
PI: Month ... no. 
NAVIG: No? And they were found in early May, and those at the end of February. So were they brought all together or at different times? 
PI: One girl was found right away, and the second girl was found later. 
NAVIG: So you and Prudkov were repeatedly summoned? Have you been called twice or just once? 
PI: We were called out with Prudkov - as soon as they were brought, they call us immediately.

 

Dyatlov-Pass-Yosif-Davidovich-Prudkov-n.

  1. Pelageya Ivanovna Solter - nurse
  2. Yosif Davydovich Prudkov - surgeon

 

 

- 3 -

 

NAVIG: They were frozen, the bodies? Frozen? 
VK: I saw 5 bodies being brought. In Ivdel. I saw them in front of the morgue, in the car. Brought apparently from the airport. I saw how they were unloaded. I didn't go close, but I just know that they were frozen in different poses, wrapped in blankets ... I think they were blue blankets. 
NAVIG: That's the way ... Here they are photographed on the pass, in the snow. 
NAVIG: And the bodies, were they thawed? 
PI: They were brought and put in a morgue. 
NAVIG: But they probably had to be thawed somehow? 
VK: Well, I saw that the hands even here were like (pose), and remained ... 5 people. 
VERDEN: How did they wash it at the same time? They were defrosted first? 
VK: Of course. Laid down, defrosted probably ... 
PI: Thawed. In the morgue, everything ... 
NAVIG: And how much time did they thaw? 
VK: We did not deal with these details. I only know about the situation in the city. If they were autopsied in Ivdel, we would have know about it. 
NAVIG: What did they do with their clothes? 
VK: Well, ... They could have burned them, throw in the furnace and burn it. Moreover, they also had radiation on their clothes. Although they lay in the water ... 
NAVIG: And the first group? 
VK: Yes, I again read this from the book, that she (Matveeva) there leads the facts. An autopsy, it also describes everything. 
VERDEN: Do you remember what were they dressed in (after being washing)? What were the clothes? 
PI: We had to buy the clothes. There were no relatives ... 
VK: Look, the first group did not even have any damage, and the second one had all the ribs broken. Who could casue these injuries on them? For this type of injuries, it should be ... 
TUAPSE: And who discovered that the ribs were broken? Or did you read this in the book? 
VK: Yes, we learned this from the reports. This can only be determined with an autopsy. 
NAVIG: And besides Prudkov, who else was there? 
PI: There was no one, he was alone there. 
NAVIG: You were unsupervised, there was no guard? 
PI: No, there was only Prudkov and that's all. 
NAVIG: And who was on the washing? You, Yosif Davydovich ... who else? 
PI: No one else. 
NAVIG: Was the morgue guarded? 
PI: No, there was no one. 
VK: And there were no orderlies who were washing? 
PI: I washed them. 
NAVIG: And their appearance? What did the bodies look like? 
PI: Of course, if I immediately wrote everything down, but now ... 
VERDEN: Are the bodies were they well preserved? 
PI: Well, they were in one piece. One had a head wound, a crack in his head, but they were all in one piece, not injured. 
VK: The group found in teh spring, they were decayed. The second party. 
VERDEN: How many bodies were there? How much do you remember? 
PI: I remember that the first time they brought six people. And first one girl, and the second girl was later found ... 
NAVIG: Did you know Korotaev? This is an investigator, he worked in the Ivdel Prosecutor's Office. 
PI: I do not remember who he was... 
VK: I know who is he. 
NAVIG: Korotaev wrote that he assisted Ganz and Vozrozhdenny in Ivdel with teh autopsies, that he packed the organs for analysis. In Ivdel. 
VK: Could be. 
NAVIG: I have his story. He personally told me this. 
VK: In each autopsy report it says in which hospital or morgue it was performed ... 
NAVIG: In the morgue of H-240 ...

 

- 4 -

 

VK: Maybe it was done at night, and they just prepared them ... 
VERDEN: So, they apparently had the impression that the corpses would be sent, but in fact the corpses were not sent? Maybe that was it? 
VK: That's right. They said so and probably ... Because there is everywhere a veil of mystery, some haste ... 
PI: These corpses were later put in coffins and sent by plane to the cemetery in Sverdlovsk. And there they were buried. 
VERDEN: Did you see how they were put in coffins? 
PI: Of course. We dressed them and laid them down. Clean. 
VK: If there was some sort of collusion or some kind of pressure, no one could tell them where the corpses were actually sent. Here they prepared them, and at night in the same morgue they did an autopsy. And that's all they were told. End of conversation. 
TUAPSE: Thsi is not likely, because it says here that the autopsy was performed in daylight. 
VK: "In daylight" who wrote this? 
NAVIG: Investigator Ivanov and expert Vozrozhdenny. And the expert criminalist Churkinа. 
NAVIG: They couldn't have been prepared. Bodies can not be washed before examination. They should be in the clothes in which they were found. 
TUAPSE: The bodies were not prepared, they were in the clothes in which they were found. 
NAVIG: They (the experts) undressed them themselves. "The corpse lies, dressed in a hat, in a mask" ... Before the examination they can not be undressed... Or maybe they made a synthesis? 
VK: I am telling you, there was some sort of undressing. They simply cut all the clothes with knives, to remove them faster... I know that they were buying suits in Ivdel. 
PI: All the clothes were dirty, everything was dirty, everything was removed from them ... Clothes were bought. 
VERDEN: This is the second evidence that clothes were bought in Ivdel. 
PI: Clothes were bought and they were laid in coffins ... 
NAVIG: Did you see it yourself? 
PI: Yes. Went to the coffins at once. Coffins brought ... 
NAVIG: And who was lying down? 
PI: ... The coffins were sent to Sverdlovsk. 
NAVIG: Did you give a non-disclosure statement? 
PI: Prudkov was doing all this. 
NAVIG: We talked with his wife, Valentina Ivanovna. Did you know her? 
PI: Yes, I did. 
NAVIG: And she says she did not know you. 
PI: She doesn't? 
NAVIG: Were you called Maria? 
VK: She may not know Prudkov's wife. How do you know her? 
PI: Well, why wouldn't I know her? She is a teacher... 
VERDEN: No, she's a pediatrician. 
NAVIG: It is not her then. 
VERDEN: No, that one. She called her "Valentina Ivanovna" ... 
NAVIG: I told her that. 
VERDEN: No, she called her even at the very beginning of the conversation, and I wrote down to clarify everything later. 
NAVIG: Let him repeat it again. 
VERDEN: What was the name of Prudkov's wife? 
PI: Valentina Ivanovna. 
NAVIG: A teacher? 
PI: Yes. 
VERDEN: She says she's a teacher. A pediatrician and children's teacher are somewhat similar: working with children 
NAVIG: Do you have a pictures of Prudkova? The medical department there, its kind ... 
VK: There are photos, I can bring you ...

 

Dyatlov-pass-Ivdel-medical-personnel-n.j

  1. Tzel Davydovna Schmidt - doctor
  2. Ekaterina Vasilievna Evstigneeva - pediatrician
  3. Savenkov - Head of Ivdel hospital
  4. Yosif Davydovich Prudkov - surgeon
  5. Shrayner N.K.

 

 

- 5 -

 

NAVIG: Your name is Pelageya, right? And why are you sometimes called Maria?
PI: I am Pelageya, but some have addressed and called me Maria. 
VK: But according to the documents Pelageya Ivanovna. 
NAVIG: Pelageya Ivanovna, and on what operations did you usually assist Prudkov? 
PI: Yes, all operations. Who was brought, all were operated on... 
NAVIG: Did you know the instruments you handed to him? 
PI: I boiled the instruments that were used in operateds. 
NAVIG: Did you know the names of the instruments? 
PI: Scalpel, then clamps ... there were clamps and bent tips... 
TUAPSE: And Prudkov, did he perform autopsies? 
PI: Of course. He was a very smart doctor. 
PI: So the autopsy were perfomed in the morgue ... 
VERDEN: So, he operated on living and dead people? Corpses? 
PI: Yes, he did everything there, he was in charge ... 
VERDEN: Maybe because it was the zone? ... 
VK: I know that there was better pay for autopsies. In my opinion, Sharonin did all the autopsies. 
PI: Sharonin came in the picture later ... 
NAVIG: We have a letter ... Pelageya Ivanovna, you wrote to Yudin ... 
VK: I wrote this. 
NAVIG: No, you wrote the second letter, and the first one she wrote. Pelageya Ivanovna, you wrote in it that when they were brought they looked like dead. What does it mean? 
VERDEN: "At first they brought three, two girls and one guy. Their faces were like those of the dead. " 
PI: Yes. 
NAVIG: What does that mean? They were brought dead, not alive? Why did you write that? 
PI: No, they did not bring them alive, they brought them dead ... 
NAVIG: So you wrote it right? All correct? 
PI: Of course. 
NAVIG: This was written in 2000 when you remembered everything. 
VERDEN: You wrote further: "At one girl the hair from one side was charred, on one arm the sleeve slightly burnt ...". Do you remember these corpses? Were they burnt? 
PI: Yes, they were burnt. You know, they were very dirty. 
NAVIG: Where would the mud come in winter. Those were the ones in spring, probably ... 
PI: If I knew that you would ask, I would have written everything down ... 
VERDEN: And where were the documents kept, Prudkov files? Where can they be? 
VK: Well, she's a nurse ... If they were in the hospital, they would be in the Headquarters office ... 
PI: In Sverdlovsk. Everything is in Sverdlovsk ... 
VK: There is a special department in that institution, which keeps all sorts of tricks ... 
NAVIG: We have now sent an official request to Ivdel. We sent it to the Headquarters of the correctional penal system, and they sent it to Ivdel. In Sverdlovsk there are no documents on the Dyatlov group. 
VK: In Ivdel this institution is now closed. It is suspended. In Ivdel, there are now 7 or 8 colonies and each colony, it ... But all the archives from the Main Directorate that was in Ivdel is stored somewhere ... 
PI: Main Directorate archives, you can still apply in Ivdel. 
NAVIG: Well, they sent the request to Ivdel, but the answer has not come yet. 
NAVIG: That's how you remember them? This one is in his clothes ... 
VK: Well, how can one remember, they look different here ... Let me see ... 
NAVIG: They are already thawed here. Lie normally ... 
VK: Is this the first group or the second? 
NAVIG: The second. 
NAVIG: Do you remember how they were brought? Did you see them? 
VK: I did not see the second group. I went to business trips often. But on the first groupf I just came across ... 
TUAPSE: And when was that - the first group. What time? 
VK: Well, they were also brought to the N-240. And there the surgical department and I went to the procedures. I saw that the car was standing and unloaded ...

 

- 6 -

 

TUAPSE: It was in March, or in February, you do not remember? 
VK: It was probably early March. 
TUAPSE: And did you write this letter? 
VK: Yes. 
PI: And does Prudkov's wife live in Sverdlovsk? 
NAVIG: Yes, we talked with her. She said that her husband did not tell anything at home that they were not allowed to tell. 
VERDEN: How did the bodies thaw? Did they just lay and thaw? 
PI: They just lay there ... 
VERDEN: How long? How many days does it take to thaw a body? 
PI: Well, a week, probably / they were lying ... They were all frozen. 
NAVIG: 49 years have passed, but no one knows why they died. 
VK: This is a cruel case. Nobody knows ... And agree, but it is not only my opinion: people, could have even blinded them, could be explosion of some sort ... the thing is that they started to choke, there was not enough oxygen to breathe. And in their fever they ran down, everybody in same direction ... And then, down below, there was more oxygen, they began to breathe, and so on ... But why did not they have enough strength to stick together? If you are going to die, so be it, but why in this manner, some here, another there, by the stream, almost half kilometer away ... Why did they split? You can imagine that there was, for example, 27 degrees below ... and they were barefoot. How did they manage to move? Dyatlov himself, you could tell it was him, holding on to that birch, trying to go back to the tent, because there was their salvation, there was alcohol, clothes ... Maybe they even use psychotropic weapon on them. 
PI: They said there was a fireball ... 
VK: It was later, it was said there ... I personally often saw in the evenings in this region some kind of firebolts ... 
NAVIG: Far away? 
VK: Well, there, in the Ural Mountains. Ivdel is higher and the Ural Mountains are close by... In that area. 
NAVIG: What year? About? Before? 
VK: Yes, and before that, and after I saw. 
NAVIG: What was the situation in Ivdel when they were found? Do you remember? Was there a lot of military, special communication? Did the generals come? 
VK: No. 
NAVIG: Shtrauh wrote that they came. Do you know Shtrauh? 
VK: Shtrauh I know. 
NAVIG: He said that there was special communication, telegraph pole were installed, the generals were walking about ... 
VK: Maybe there was something like that, but I do not know anything about it. I know that there was a military unit that guarded the institution, the camps. There was the regiment, or in my opinion, even a division... And so maybe some generals ... Well, the colonels were of internal troops. 
NAVIG: So you have not seen them? 
VK: I did not see it. 
NAVIG: A Shtrauh says that he saw. 
VK: Well, Shtrauh is an intelligent man, a correspondent of a newspaper, he could have known more. 
NAVIG: Did you know Solomonovich? 
VK: Felix Yakovlevich? But what about. 
NAVIG: We spoke with him recently. He had there, by the way, his wife was also present. She worked somewhere in the office. 
VK: We worked together with Solomonovich, in one department, he was a lieutenant colonel. 
NAVIG: Solomonovich says that the autopsy was done in the zone and sent to Sverdlovsk. 
VK: Did he say that? Well, so they did. And, you see, she (Pelageya Ivanovna) was told that they were taken on planes to Sverdlovsk. 
VERDEN: She might not know the fate of the bodies, she just did some specific task ...

 

 

- 7 -

 

 

39736328080_fed0c8bd6d_o.jpg

Pelageya Ivanovna Solter

 

VK: There's a hospital in the zone, all the contingent was treated in it ... in the zone ... there is surgery ... 
NAVIG: A where is the morgue? 
VK: A morgue beyond the pre-ice zone. 
VERDEN: Pelageya Ivanovna, do you remember if all the corpses were dirty? All nine? 
PI: All dirty, everyone was washed ... 
NAVIG: So the morgue was outside the zone? 
VK: This morgue was in the hospital. There, in the town, we had a therapeutic department, the brick building was good, good doctors. 
NAVIG: Was it beyond the zone? And what was in the zone then? Was there a morgue? 
VK: I do not remember where the morgue was ... there were no cons here ... There was a small morgue, and the next day the prisoners were taken out and buried ... 
NAVIG: The autopsy was done in the zone morgue ... 
VK: Correct. 
NAVIG: So, has Prudkov been called to the civil morgue or to the camp morgue? 
VK: In the civil, I know for sure. 
VERDEN: Did Prudkov inspect the civilian morgue? 
VK: N-240 is in the hospital, and the camp hospital is separate, in the camp zone. 
PI: He worked in the hospital, and the morgue was from the hospital. 
VK: They sent these bodies to Prudkov to prepared ... 
NAVIG: In the civilian? 
VK: Yes, they made a description there ... 
NAVIG: I have to clarify, they worked all in what hospital, in the territory of the zone or in civilian? 
VERDEN: Pelageya Ivanovna, did you work in the morgue with Prudkov on the territory of the zone or on the territory of the hospital? 
PI: On the territory of the zone. 
VK: What zone?! 
PI: Well, I went into the hospital in the zone... With Prudkov. 
VK: What kind of zone? You and Prudkov worked in the morgue in the zone. What morgue is there in the zone? 
NAVIG: Behind the barbed wire? 
VK: Let's determine what "in the zone" means! 
NAVIG: Yes, let's ... 
VK: There was a contingent there, tens of thousand of people, you have to treat them. There was Four, it was in the city, very close to Headquarters. 
NAVIG: What is Four? 
NAVIG: Management? Zone - Four? 
VK: The zone of the Four, in this Four there was a hospital for the convicts specially, from all the colonies were brought and treated. There is surgery and operations were performed, well, everything ..., and there were many doctors. And there were good specialists, because ... 
PI: Well, maybe there's still someone left. 
VK: They paid more than in the civil. 
NAVIG: In the zone? 
VK: In the zone, yes, they paid more. And here, beyond the zone, there was surgery, too, there was hospital , the clinic was separate. It was for civilian contingent only. Well, the personnel who worked at the N-240. 
NAVIG: It was for them, yes? 
TUAPSE: For civilians? 
NAVIG: Did you go out of the population? No? 
VK: No. 
NAVIG: That is for civilian personnel. 
VK: There was a central hospital for Ivdel's population. It is still there. It's a special hospital, you see, they even had a slightly higher salary. 
NAVIG: No, I see. Well, what about the barbed wire, the area was surrounded by a wire? Was there a passing mode?

 

- 8 -

 

VK: Sure. There were the barracks where the condemned lived. 
NAVIG: So, this hospital was behind this zone? 
VK: It was in this Zone, but it was still fenced off separately. 
TUAPSE: Do we understand correctly that there was a hospital for prisoners separately, separately for the personnel who worked in the Zone and separately for civilians and residents of Ivdel? 
VK: This is what I am explaining. 
TUAPSE: We have three hospitals? 
VK: Yes, there were three hospitals. Convicts were treated, and specially, and this structure is still in the medical institutions of the Ministry of Justice. But, given that now the Colonies have autonomy, the Headquarters reduced it, so they left the medicine and left the clinic. They didn't even abandon all branches 
PI: And Prudkov's wife is she still alive? Does she live in Ivdel? 
VERDEN: No, in Sverdlovsk. 
PI: Does she live in Sverdlovsk? And the sons are they both surgeons? 
VERDEN: Yes. 
NAVIG: One is Chief surgeon of the Urals Federal District, Mikhail. And this one - he is the Head of the department of the Sverdlovsk administration. 
VK: Are these the sons of Prudkov? 
NAVIG: Yes. Alexander, he will be the shorter. 
VK: Here she was in the hospital, in the 40th or in some kind of place she was lying. There, her son even attending her. The son, I do not know, was he a surgeon? 
NAVIG: Surgeon. 
VERDEN: In the 40th hospital of what city? 
VK: In Sverdlovsk. She (Pelageya Ivanovna) got in the hospital with stones. And I went there, and even lived in the hospital for 2-3 days, I slept in the corridor on a couch. 
PI: Prudkov son operated on me. Got out the stones from my kidney. 
VERDEN: So you know him well? 
PI: Yes. Acquaintances. Still, you know, they will come: "Call dad." They will come in surgery for free oepartion. 
VK: Do you want a graphic plan for the hospital? 
NAVIG: Where is the barbed wire, where was the pass? 
VK: Give me that. I will ... 
NAVIG: Because we do not understand. 
VK: This is town. City of Ivdel, it is mostly down, around, on both sides is Ivdel river. This is Ivdel river. Here is the road to Gorodok (small city - ed. note). Here is Gorodok.
VERDEN: You do not know what happened to Yudin during the hike, why did he leave the trek? 
PI: I do not know. 
VERDEN: They did some kind of operation on him? Did you attend an operation of appendicitis? Did Prudkov operated him in the city? Was he operated on? 
NAVIG: The letter says he was. 
VERDEN: Do you remember Yudin? Do you know who Yudin is? It was the tenth tourist who did not go to the mountains. You wrote him a letter .... 
PI: Well, I wrote, but I already forgot. 
VK: There's a road here, near the road are the Headquarters. Here, from the Headquarters, the road goes to Vizhay. Right here opposite the polyclinic is a civil office. 
TUAPSE: Was it all open to access? 
VK: It's civil, it's open. This is the Zone. 
NAVIG: Write there "Zone". 
VK: Zone. The H-240 was then the Four.

 

- 9 -

 

Dyatlov-Pass-Solter-01.jpg

NAVIG: Was theре wire there, barb wire? 
VK: Sure thing. A double fence even. 
NAVIG: There were cons in general. 
VK: So the zone, there was inner fence, and one outside. 
NAVIG: Understandable. 
VK: There was third zone on the street. 
NAVIG: You mean, one more fence? 
VK: Fence. There was a watch, too. And here is where the hospital was. I think there were several rooms there. 
VERDEN: Have you ever been to the territory of the Zone? 
VK: But what about. And not once was. Went there. There, Popov Alexander Ivanovich is still working, doing X-rays. Radiologist. He is still working, his wife passed away, also a doctor. And in the Zone there are barracks, messroom, surgery, therapy. In Gorodok here, I abbreviated it, also residential buildings, polyclinic, there was a hotel and so on. Here, too, there was a civilian surgery, and a polyclinic for all those who worked in the institution. This is surgery. 
NAVIG: Is it a road? 
VK: It's the road from the river, Ivdel river. On the right side here is the city, and here it is all city. 
TUAPSE: And this clinic for those who are in the Headquarters? 
VK: Management, who works in institutions, Colony on Vizhay ... 
NAVIG: Was there barbed wire here? 
VK: No, why? It's civil .. 
NAVIG: But they did not treat civilians? 
VK: They treated civilians related to the work. 
NAVIG: But not if you are kolhoznik. 
VK: The city residents were treated in the city hospital. And here - only the people from the system of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Those who worked in the colonies, on the field ..., there was a whole system. 
NAVIG: Morgue? 
VK: Right here at the polyclinic, in the same district, here is the morgue. Here is how the road goes, the paths ... And this is the morgue, and this is the Institutions. Here is this hospital, civil, morgue. If the morgue was there it was also for the convicted.
NAVIG: Yes, there was a morgue in the zone? 
VK: They were not kept there for a long time. 
NAVIG: Well, was there a morgue there? 
VK: Well, I guess there was. 
NAVIG: No, well, because it says here, in the morgue of the H-240 autopsy was performed. Washed in same morgue.

 

- 10 -

 

TUAPSE: And this system belongs to H-240? 
VK: You know, well, some logic, there should be some logic in all this ... 
NAVIG: The report is there, see? They will not lie, it's a document. 
VK: Wait, there should be some logic, I reckon. Why do it, you know, in the morgue, there are no conditions for perfom surgical operation. When next to it, you know, there is a surgical department in the zone. At night, take them there, do an autopsy, take them out. Where, no one will know. Or do ... well, it's unlikely, it was a fiction, so that someone would do an autopsy in the morgue. 
NAVIG: This is a reference to Dyatlov group. We are only talking about Dyatlov group. And why, there is a table and it's done. 
VK: So even the same Dyatlov group. Well, you need tables, some instruments. 
NAVIG: Well, probably, they brought them there. 
VK: If this is what Solomonovich said, maybe he could have known more, then ... 
NAVIG: Yes, he does not state any facts, he just said it. You can not confirm anything. 
VK: Did you talk to him? 
NAVIG: Yes, on the phone. He said the autopsy was done there, but where he got this information is unknown. Yes, no one knows. 
VK: I know because I lived there. Well, you know, in the city ..., there was this murmur that people died, that Mansi could have attacked them and so on. So, probably, it went on for a month. Then all this quieted down. But the fact is that if there was an autopsy done, one way or another, I would have known. 
NAVIG: Here? (in the zone) 
VK: Yes. 
NAVIG: And why would you know? Because your wife worked there? 
VK: Yes, I worked too, I was connected with everything, I ... 
NAVIG: Did you come here? Did you had access to the zone? 
VK: I came here, she worked here. Yes, she then worked in the zone again. 
NAVIG: After that? 
VK: Yes, she worked there for another 30 years or 40 in the zone. 
NAVIG: Well, let's not be particularly interested in this. 
VK: And we were good friends, greeted for the holidays and the Day of medicine, in this hospital with all doctors, medical personnel in this hospital, we always gathered in the clinic and spent the evenings.

Recording stopped.

 

Dyatlov-pass-Ivdel-medical-personnel-1-n
Forest Management Central Polyclinic

  1. Tzel Davydovna Schmidt - doctor
  2. Sara Mihaylovna Agisheva
  3. Ekaterina Vasilievna Evstigneeva - pediatrician
  4. Yosif Davydovich Prudkov - surgeon
  5. Evgeniy Ivanovich Tzaskin
  6. Anna Petrovna Taranova
  7. Filatova - doctor

 

 

- 11 -

 

VK: They were unloaded right here. 
NAVIG: Did you see them? They were in what, in coffins or just like that? 
VK: No, they were, they were just brought from ... 
NAVIG: from the pass. 
VK: They were brought from the airfield. And with a car, they are just so, you know, well, frozen, they pull them out, wrapped in blankets. I remember it now, blankets were blue. 
NAVIG: In these? They had blankets there, on the Pass. They slept in them. 
VK: Well, they could have used the same blankets to transport them. It's not necessarily the same blankets. Or maybe they were theirs. 
NAVIG: Did you know Patrushev? 
VK: Whom? 
NAVIG: Pilot Patrushev? Gennady. 
VK: No, I did not know him. There was a club opposite Dzerzhinsky's club. There were pilots, I knew one there. 
NAVIG: There was Gzhatenko, I remember. Helicopter pilot, he died, crashed. 
VK: No, he was an old pilot, he flew on these, U-2 or something like that. 
NAVIG: AN-2. 
VK: AN-2, I knew him. Now, he lived in Ivdel for a long time, even after he had already built a house. He lived there anyway. 
VERDEN: But still it's unclear, was there a morgue in the zone?
VK: Well, I do not know where it is located, I just know that there was an solitary near the guardhouse in the corner for the colony. Isolator. That is, if you misbehave they put you in the solitary, from these barracks, there. 
NAVIG: And if prisoners die, where did they put them? Did they bring them to this morgue? 
VK: I'm telling you, no, how can they be brought in a civilian? No. 
TUAPSE: Maybe they had their own (morgue) somewhere? 
VK: They had their own, there was a morgue. They must have had, because if a prisoner dies, they keep him for a day or two and then bury. And that's all. Any hospital has a morgue somewhere probably. I can not draw you, I do not know where it was. 
NAVIG: Well, it's clear that you didn't see it. Was the territory big? 
VK: Well, the zone, I reckon, in meters, probably under 200 - length and width, probably 150 roughly, there was a colony. Well, meters 200-300, yes not 300, and all 400, probably, was. Well, something like this. 
NAVIG: And in other places, 41 district, knew this? The Second North. There were also zones there. 
VK: I know, the North ... 
TUAPSE: What was in the Second North? 
VK: So, Second North, now I'll draw. What do I know about the Second North. Well, you know from Ivdel the road went, as you may say ..., to a small town of urban type called "Polunochnoe" ...

Dyatlov-Pass-Solter-02.jpg

 

NAVIG: Well, it still exists. 
VK: Polunochnoe. This is if Ivdel, let's say, from the Institution if you went to the colonies. The road goes like that, and after Polunochnoe, 7 kilometers further along the road is "Taloe". No, it's here, Taloe village is here. 
NAVIG: turns to Solter: Did remember anything about Yudin? 
VK: So after Polunochnoe First and Second North. The second North is about here. Well, on the road to the village, you know, there is an eating house, we always went there, went to the eating house, bought bread, general store, they had good supplies. The Second North. Here. And then the road went to the village "Shepichnoye", then went on, this is a colony. This is Shepichnoe. The Fourth, the Fifth are districts Colonies were colonies. In my opinion, here was the 7th district, in my opinion. Further Burmantovo, also a large settlement, further this colony was, Vizhay, more colonies, three or four colonies. There were also three or four colonies here. Settlements. Like this.

 

- 12 -

 

TUAPSE: And what was in the Second North? 
VK: Second North, Second North was that ... They had a big quarry, you know, they got there manganese ore. There were big careers here, you know ... 
NAVIG: Were there prisoners there? 
VK: No, thеre were not. Here, then the Second North. Here the were the stone mountains, you see. Well, there were rocks, all the dumps, because this is a huge pit, probably a kilometer in diameter, and trucks were moving roundabout here ... And the Second North here was this settlement here. That's the village on this side, all here are houses. Here. Here is the quarry, here was still, you know a workshop, the crushing workshop № ... The workshop crushed the stone. Well, and then from here, probably, from the Second, probably, they went, there the road is there to the ridge.
NAVIG: And where's the 41st site? They went to the 41st after that. What is it? 
VK: Well, I do not know. 
NAVIG: Logging , probably some kind? 
VK: Probably, too, because, you know, they had careers earlier small, probably this was the 41st district. 
NAVIG: They reached the Second Northern, and Yudin turned back, and they went into the forest. And Yudin took the stones here. So 41st was here right here? 
VK: Maybe there was a quarry here, maybe this one they called, an old abandoned quarry. We went there to pick mushrooms. 
VERDEN: What did geologists do there, why did geologists live there? Where were they aniway - on the Second North or on the 41st, where is it? 
VK: The Second North is a whole ..., it was a big settlement. 
VERDEN: What did geologists do there in the winter? 
VK: Well, what did they do? Firstly, they drilled in the winter ... 
VERDEN: They drilled in the winter? 
VK: Yes. They, for example, in the summer they went to the ridge there. Let's say, here's the Polunochnoe, then the roads to the ridge, everywhere the roads were there. 
NAVIG: And what are the cores? You know? 
NAVIG: Cores from geologists - what is that? They extract them in the winter for some reason. There is a report from a geologist who went there to take dirt samples and saw strangers on the Pass. So, what are these cores for geologists? Maybe it's an instrument, or something? 
VK: A, cores ... I'm telling you again, here they are, they have this road everywhere ..., then the road there, everyone went to the ridge, we went there for mushrooms, we often made our way by car, the ridge was going like that. 
NAVIG: The Urals? 
VK: The Urals range. 
NAVIG: It's called Poyasovoy kamen (means Waistband stone - ed. note
VK: We went there, and often I, you know, spent the weekend in the woods. I was getting to Polunochnoe, not as far as Taloe, there was the military checkpoint here. 
NAVIG: So there were military there? 
VK: No. Given that there is a colony here, you see, from the military unit 6602, in my opinion, here it was, the checkpoint here. Then you know what, well, for security reasons, to catch convicts. Little did they make a check in the morning, and he ran away in the afternoon. During this time you could leave by car, and then the cars were checked here. And this checkpoint checked everyone. And here from this checkpoint was the road, there, up. I walked mostly along this road, mountains were already beginning here, I gathered cranberries here on these mountains, at the foothills. 
VERDEN: And here was no checkpoint of some kind? There was not any checkpoint on this stretch from the Second North? 
VK: Well, here, I'm telling you ... 
VERDEN: Here you drew Polunochnoe ... 
VK: No, it's not Polunochnoe, for Taloe, it's for Taloe, there can be kilometers, well, from Taloe 6 or 7 kilometers there was a checkpoint. 
VERDEN: So there's a checkpoint between Taloe and Polunochnoe here, right? 
VK: Yes-yes-yes. 
VERDEN: And here? 
VK: And then Taloe, that's why here Taloe is called, there Taloe river flowed. It goes down that way. Maninskoe lake there. Maninskoe lake was big. And this river took from there from the upper reaches and flowed there. 
NAVIG: What about the cores, we forgot the cores ... 
VK: A, teh cores. You know, they had certain places. Let's say that they are drilling, there is a truck, say, on the road here, and the drilling machine is standing here somewhere. And these are all these, these are those that are extracted from the pipes, they are picked up afterwards, and then they are put here in boxes. In such boxes, let's say, stand here, just like this. These are all the samples from the pipes. Here. They lay here. And then they are taken to certain places, and then they are taken from there, these are the cores that are taken away somewhere.

 

- 13 -

 

TUAPSE: And what's the point of bringing them somewhere? 
VERDEN: Soil? 
VK: No soil, stones. There and pyrite and all possible minerals. Everything is there. To study, that's here. 
VERDEN: So a core is a drill that drills this stone and takes a sample? 
VK: Well, you know, this drilling technology must be known. Drilling machine, this is such, maybe 200 meters deep pipes, and the soil at a depth of 200 meters to take a sample. And then they take the whole thing upwards, put it in boxes in certain places, along the road they have warehouses for them. And then they take ... 
TUAPSE: Does the box consist of several compartments? 
VK: Well, different, there even the date is written, when, what, depth. There, in order to analyze these samples, you need to know where this well is located. It's getting cold, we had a settlement there, there was a geological prospecting expedition, people lived there. And there was a laboratory, I had acquaintances from this laboratory. 
VERDEN: Was there a laboratory in the village of Northern? 
VK: Not on the North, Second Ivdel, no ..., yes, Second Ivdel, Second Ivdel village. 
VERDEN: There was such a settlement there, Ivdel-2? Or was it called Second Ivdel? 
VK: Second Ivdel. The first Ivdel, this is when we come to the city, and then if you go 5 kilometers, the is Second North, there is a settlement, a settlement of geologists. 
VERDEN: And these core samples they were made in certain places? Or just someone collected them on the road? Was there a truck that picked them up? 
VK: They have their own system there, they know where to lay, what, where ... Well, let's say, the drill station is here, they have repository nearby, they cover with felt to prevent moisture from entering there, and there are the boxes ... and in these boxes, there are a lot of them there, probably about 100 pieces out there of these core samples. 
NAVIG: Well, they can take them in the winter, right? 
VK: In the winter they sometimes lie there in the summer ... 
NAVIG: Could that be on the ridge? 
VERDEN: How often did they get there? 
VK: I went for mushrooms, sometimes I see, I look at this warehouse. 
NAVIG: Near the ridge can there be such sample cores? 
VK: No, near the ridge ..., and maybe they were. 
TUAPSE: How are they going to drive there? 
NAVIG: Why drive, they're on foot. They were dropped by a helicopter. 
VK: The roads are going around, these are the roads. 
TUAPSE: And drilling? 
NAVIG: So in the summer they drill, and in the winter he went to take pictures. 
VK: Listen, here's what I drew for you, here along this road, here is the Second Northern, in the same place once the establishment of the H-240 chopped down the forest, there are solid roads, the road goes up to the ridge. And the roads are so good that you can go there and geologists get there, drilling works are carried out. Then these stumps, which were harvested by loggers, after 3-4 years or 5 years later, they are hoisted and taken to the city, then unloaded, in my opinion, very good varnishes are made of them and a lot of materials are made. Osmol was called, osmol took care of their own. So there were roads everywhere, there in this area. I heard that there, somewhere in Burmantovo or nearby, that there to the ridge, there seems to be some military unit, a small one. 
NAVIG: About Chistop, there is a word going around that there was some kind of radar station or something like that. 
VK: Yes-yes-yes, there was. 
NAVIG: In the year 59, in my opinion, it was not there. 
TUAPSE: At what time was this small unit there? 
NAVIG: Was it in 59? 
VK: Look, Burmantovo, then we went even further along the road to one mountain, there were another 10-15 kilometers, there was a mountainous area, at the foothills already, and there was such a road, I was thinking, who is this for, such a beautiful road, very well paved. Such a big road, it must have be going somewhere, probably. 
NAVIG: What year was this? 
VK: Well, that's already, you know, much later. 
NAVIG: And this is another question, when the civilians arrived in Ivdel, this was the area of Ivdellag, did they have to registered mandatory? For example, tourists? Or in general, so if I came there, I had to register, right? For the local it is not necessary, but for an outsider? 
VK: In the city there is such a situation that tourists who come are obliged to register. 
NAVIG: What kind of organization was that, what kind of unit, KGB, the Ministry of Internal Affairs or prison security? 
VK: You know, this is just how it was. 
NAVIG: No, but what's there a checkpoint where to register? 
VERDEN: In the cityhall, in some kind of administration? 
VK: Well, that was a problem of teh city. 
NAVIG: In the city, right? 
VK: In the city, yes. Previously, there was a Part committee. And there even was a representative of the KGB. 
NAVIG: And when one leaves, he too must check his registration on the way out, right? 
VK: Well, about this registration ... 
NAVIG: Yudin says they did not register. 
VK: They did not register. 
NAVIG: Because otherwise he had to withdraw from the registration when he went back. 
VK: I even heard that when there was party committee in the city, it seemed like it was forbidden to visit these places in this region. 
NAVIG: Yes, exactly.

Recording stopped.

 

- 14 -

 

P.I. Solter reads a letter from Chernobrov out loud.

PI: I'm Pelageya Ivanovna, but put me here as Maria. 
TUAPSE: Here you said about Buyanov that he was very interested, but who else was interested in this whole case? 
VK: What now? 
NAVIG: Who else was interested in what you have to say? 
VK: Oh, well, Yudin wrote a letter to me first. Well, the first one I answer it. I just did not want to deal with all this scribbling, I was even pissed that I, what source am I? I am in the deep and do not know these events. What I heard as rumors, I wrote to him. So, he must find, that's the way, whether he has friends, comrades, who are better acquainted with whole thing. 
TUAPSE: And Yudin was interested? 
NAVIG: Yudin was there. 
VK: I also, you know, I was somewhat connected with Sverdlovsk, I worked as a senior inspector of the state forest inspection of Sovivdelles (Soviet Ivdel Forrest - ed. note), lived in Ivdel, in the Northern Urals. But often I came to Sverdlovsk, I had a certificate from the Regional Party Committee. So, we went to inspect large enterprises, consumers, even large factories, metallurgical plants in Magnitogorsk, Sverdlovsk, everywhere Lespromhozes (Forrest Management Sectors - ed. note), docks were checked. But we had a certificate, besides our tasks, let's say, a reminder that we should reflect in the acts of inspections, the Regional Committee of People's Control gave us these tasks. We had to report 12 checkpoints. So I… 
NAVIG: Strauh says that there was the Sosvinsky Reserve, there was a training ground. It's higher up there ... 
VK: Maybe there was. What was it called again? 
NAVIG: Sosvinsky Reserve, this is on the border with the Tyumen region, in my opinion. 
VK: I'm convinced that ... 
NAVIG: And if there was a test range, then missiles flew there. 
VK: I'm convinced that this is some kind of technogenic, let's say, accident. 
NAVIG: There are no traces of explosion. There is no explosion, there are no pits. 
VK: The explosion maybe not so evident, the explosion can be air above the ground. 
NAVIG: Then their limbs would be broken, they would be thrown back, hit, arms and legs would break. Bodies would be scattered around. 
VK: How do you know what happened, and how the bodies were found? Don't you think there could be some staging? Do you know where and how were they killed? 
NAVIG: This one had his skull caved in - clearly from a blow with a butt. The bone here was pressed into the skull to a depth of 2 cm, this force must be huge. 
VK: This is a terrible secret. I can not even imagine. I have heard what beautiful people they were. Women see here, in my opinion, one of them Dubinina, she - an only daughter of her parents. Father, they say, was so solid. And Dyatlov himself, you see. 
TUAPSE: Do you know anything about their past? Maybe something you heard somewhere? 
VK: Absolutely nothing, these are students. How can we know? 
TUAPSE: Well, you never know, rumors? 
VK: No, no, there's something doubtful in what they say about Zolotaryov. 
NAVIG: Well, no one knows who he is, and where is he from. But there are rumors. He went allegedly to get a master of sports. 
VK: Listen, I imagine that there were twigs on the ground, you see, if it is a brushwood, it will be dry. You could, you know, start a fire, and not climb, but there were fragments of branches of the tree. Birches are cut, small birches. There grев birch, aspen. And they like, they tried to cut this with a knife. Why didn't they see around, you know, that there was brushwood laying around them. 
NAVIG: Тhey cut branches to make the flooring. There was a stream there, a ravine, they made a den there. They found the rest in May. 
VK: A, flooring, well, maybe flooring ... 
NAVIG: From cut branches ... 
VK: From the spruce here with this from the conifer? 
NAVIG: Yes. The tops were severed. Yudin shows photos, and there are severed. And who cut them down is not clear. 
VK: And what did they cut them down with? 
NAVIG: With an ax, of course, what else. So there were outsiders. Some kind of strangers. 
VK: Listen, aren't there ranks that do just that - clean and tie up loose ends. If there was something, they could just clean everything up and hide it somewhere in general. Not leave a trace knowing that they will be an extensive search and so on. This is unreasonable. 
NAVIG: Maybe be they were in a hurry?

 

- 15 -

 

VERDEN: Maybe it wasn't on that level at all. 
VK: Why hurry? 
NAVIG: Why hurry? So searches have already begun on February, 12th. They had to come back by the 12th. If they don't show by the 12th, a civil search will begin. And they were discovered much later. When their accident occurred or whatever it was. 
VERDEN: Pelageya Ivanovna, why did you say here that the corpses were not nine, but eleven? Is it true? 
PI: Of course it's true, if I wrote it. 
VERDEN: Why not nine but eleven, don't you remember you said that? Why were there eleven corpses? 
NAVIG: So, what's written there, that's it? 
PI: Well, I only wrote the truth. 
TUAPSE: And why eleven? 
VK: Before I write something, it was necessary to give me a note. It must have been writen somewhere. 
VERDEN: Do you think there could be eleven corpses? 
VK: How could there be eleven, Yudin's alive, well, listen, will he let his comrades down? 
NAVIG: Well, maybe there were outsiders. 
VERDEN: There could be outsiders. 
NAVIG: They could have been killed there, too. If counterintelligence was involved, then anything is possible. 
VK: But if they went up there on skis, you understand the whole thing, clothes, there was some kind of unidentified clothing there, Yudin, but maybe he couldn't recognize it. 
NAVIG: There broken skis, there were pieces of film. They did not take the film. 
VK: No, are you sure they didn't take the film? 
NAVIG: The film, and there were pieces of film. 
VK: When they were preparing a place for the tent in the snow, they photographed the first frame. 
NAVIG: The films were in the cameras, and that was in the snow, it was found later. It's in the protocol. 
VK: I heard there was a circle metal part there. 
NAVIG: That's much later. From the S-200, the rocket. That could have fallen afterwards. 
VERDEN: Pelageya Ivanovna, why did you say after all that there were eleven corpses? 
VK: No, maybe she forgot. 
VERDEN: But there is even a clarification there that the corpses were not nine, but eleven. 
TUAPSE: And that it's written in some kind of article. 
VK: Who, where is it written? 
VERDEN: Well, that's what Chernobrov wrote. 
VK: She (Pelageya Ivanovna - ed. note), you know, she was already coming to Leningrad. I came earlier, and there was a member of the Komsomol and journalist on the train. They started talking, sat into the same compartment, and she (Pelageya Ivanovna - ed. note) told them that they were eleven. Maybe her memory was already going astray. That's the problem. 
VERDEN: And what year was it? 
VK: It was probably already in 1999 or 2000. I arrived, in my opinion, in 1998, and she remained there for a while. And there she said to them something in the compartment which I don't know whether it's true or not. 
VERDEN: And do you know someone in Ivdel, who in those days, could have anything to do with this matter? Transportation of corpses. Maybe you remember someone who lives in Ivdel. A truck driver, some orderlies? 
VK: Well, at that time, why did I need to know about this? Now question are raised, who, whom, what. To find a catch. At that time, we absolutely went on with our lifes and an event like this, something happened, then everything died down. Years have passed. 
VERDEN: Well, you know the whole system, who could be responsible for the removal and transportation of corpses, for example. Well, you had some kind of transport there, the head of the transport department. 
VK: Well, to take out corpses from the scene, must be by helicopters. Helicopters were always ordered by the Institution. There was an enterprise, an Ivdel airline, there were always requested. I was even flying on a helicopter, I flew by helicopter to do my job.
TUAPSE: Was it a civilian enterprise or a military one, where helicopters were requested? 
VK: No, these are civil aviation enterprises, well, the airport. 
TUAPSE: And what about civil helicopters? 
VK: Yes, civilian helicopters. And the Institution sometimes rented them. If it was necessary to transfer cargo or something, somewhere. Geologists often rented them ...

 

- 16 -

 

TUAPSE: Did the institution have its own helicopters, its aviation? 
VK: No, they didn't. 
VERDEN: And what did they have, any kind of transport? Were there cars? 
VK: Sure. There were a lot of cars. 
VERDEN: If they were sent by train, as in one version, they (corpses) should have been driven by a car. 
VK: We had motorbikes, and boats on Lozva river. If somebody escaped, there were boats on the river. There was the motor depot, and they had their own vehicles. This was an large enterprise, the H-240/2. 
NAVIG: You have to write here your name Pelageya Ivanovna and sign. 
VERDEN: Is this Pelageya Ivanovna? 
VK: Yes, that she is. 
VERDEN: And where is she? In Ivdel? What year is that? 
VK: One minute, let me bring the photo album. 
NAVIG: And here's a gynecologist, what was her name? You were there. She was with Sharonin. 
PI: A woman who worked in a free hospital, Taranova Anna Petrovna. 
NAVIG: Was she also at the washout? 
TUAPSE: We are talking about the free free clinic. 
NAVIG: Well, she (Pelageya Ivanovna - ed. note) was there with her and Prudkov. Here is a letter, where she (Pelageya Ivanovna - ed. note) wrote about it. 
PI: She (Taranova Anna Petrovna - ed. note) worked in the free clinic. 
NAVIG: Was she ... was she present with Prudkov. 
PI: We worked in the zone, and she worked in a free clinic. In the zone only men were allowed, not women. So Anna Petrovna did not work with us in the zone, but in a free clinic. But she knows everything, I don't know if she's alive or not. 
NAVIG: She didn't work, but she was present at the morgue. 
VERDEN: And why was she in the morgue? 
NAVIG: So the morgue was not in the zone. 
TUAPSE: I still don't understand this division to the end. 
VERDEN: I don't understand either. 
NAVIG: No, why, it's for a citizen anyway, but here there were convicts already. 
TUAPSE: Here is for prisoners, here is for civilians, here is partially for civilians. 
NAVIG: No, there were prisoners here. How can you enter here, if there are prisoners. 
VERDEN: Why did you need a gynecologist? 
VK: Convicts were treated separately, but it's possible with civilians. 
PI: They called out how the commission was. 
VERDEN: Oh, just like the members of the commission some, huh? 
PI: Yes, yes. And this is me, this is my office, I was dealing with the systems. 
VK: This is the surgical department at a different times. 
TUAPSE: Ivdel? 
VK: Well, of course, she worked here, Mary Ivanovna. These are all the doctors here. 
TUAPSE: And who's this in the middle? 
VK: That's Prudkov. And all the medics. 
PI: That's Prudkov, that's the Head nurse. And this is Tzel Davydovna, a doctor. 
VERDEN: Do you know if any of these doctors still live in Ivdel? 
VK: Yes, take the photos with you. 
NAVIG: Are you sure? 
VK: Yes, of course. 
NAVIG: Great! 
PI: And this is Tsaskin Alexander Evgenievich. He was a gynecologist. 
VK: This is Savenkov, the Director if the hospital. 
VERDEN: This was a free hospital, right? 
VK: Yes, free. This is the wife of the Head of the department of the Institution, she was the wife of this one here ... 
PI: Ivanova. 
VK: Ivanova Valentina Ivanovich. 
PI: She was a doctor. And this is Tsaskin Alexander Evgenievich.

 

Dyatlov-pass-Ivdel-medical-personnel-2-n
Forest Management Central Polyclinic

  1. Sara Mihaylovna Agisheva
  2. Yosif Davydovich Prudkov - surgeon
  3. Evgeniy Ivanovich Tzaskin
  4. Savenkov - Head of Ivdel hospital
  5. Anna Petrovna Taranova
  6. Ekaterina Vasilievna Evstigneeva - pediatrician
  7. Tzel Davydovna Schmidt - doctor
  8. Filatova - doctor

 

 

- 17 -

 

VK: These are already doctors in the zone here. Here is Sharonin ... 
NAVIG: Who, the one with the glasses? 
VK: Yes. 
NAVIG: Sharonin. 
VK: Here, Mary Ivanovna, you see, she is looking sideways. 
NAVIG: Where? That's her? 
VK: Yes. 
VERDEN: But this is the zone, it's the hospital in the zone, right? 
VK: This is a hospital in the zone, but here she is, Mary Ivanovna. 
VERDEN: Tell me, do you know if any of these people are alive? Could they know something, for example? 
VK: Well, this one is probably alive. Nurses are probably alive. Here is Pronovozova, she's still alive. 
VERDEN: Yes? What's her name? 
VK: Pronozova. Here she is, she is a Head nurse, a war veteran.

 

Dyatlov-Pass-Alexandra-Ivanovna-Pronozov

  1. Yosif Davydovich Prudkov - surgeon
  2. Alexandra Ivanovna Pronozova - head nurse, war veteran

 

NAVIG: In Ivdel? 
VK: Yes, she lives in Ivdel, still alive. 
VERDEN: What's her name? 
VK: She was a Head nurse in the zone. 
PI: Alexandra Ivanovna. 
VERDEN: What's her name? 
PI: Alexandra Ivanovna Pronozova. 
VK: She was in the free clinic at the time. 
NAVIG: Do you have a phone or an address for her? 
VK: No. 
VERDEN: And she had something to do with this story? Well, she could have, right? 
VK: Well, maybe she knows something. She's an old worker. 
PI: She's from Ivdel, she would know. 
VK: She worked as a civilian, she worked in the free clinic, and then she moved there. Because the pay was better. 
VERDEN: She's even born in Ivdel, right? 
VK: Yes, from Ivdel. A lot of them lived there. 
VERDEN: And can there be anybody else? Or maybe someone else is alive, people in all are not so old in the photo.
VK: Well, this is Dr. Schmidt, this is Tzel Davydovna, she's gone now. Here it is Anya Molostova, she was our neighbor. 
VERDEN: And Sharonin is dead, right? 
PI: Yes. Long dead. 
VK: Here I can clearly see Pronozova. 
PI: Well Pronozova is still alive. She lives in the small town there. 
VERDEN: In town? She lives in the town. 
VK: This is what you should do. 
VERDEN: We'll try. 
NAVIG: We did not know, now we know. 
PI: This is Elvira Andreevna, still alive, and her daughter Lisa. 
VERDEN: What's her name? 
VK: She is also alive, Elvira. 
VERDEN: Does Elvira Andreevna have a surname? 
VK: Now, one minute. Simon, in my opinion. 
VERDEN: Simon? 
PI: Simon? No no. What was her name ... 
VK: Elvira Andreevna even wrote letters to us, there are somewhere here. 
VERDEN: Maybe you have some envelope with an address? Maybe we should contact her, too? 
VK: I 'll look for envelopes. Well, you see, here ... 
PI: There are probably still alive too ... 
PI: This is Borsch Lisa.

 

- 18 -

 

NAVIG: Mary Ivanovna, I mean Pelageya Ivanovna. 
VERDEN: And what's her name, Borsch? 
PI: Borsch Elvira. 
VERDEN: How is it spelled? 
PI: Lisa Borsch. 
VERDEN: Is this a zone hospital? 
PI: Yes. And this is Valentina, I forgot how ... She lived beyond the river. 
PI: This is our hosting nurse. Her name was German, I think. 
VERDEN: By the way, did the hosting nurse have anything to do with this matter? 
VK: Well, probably, they are alive. I dont know. Here is Taranova Anna Petrovna. She lives in Sverdlovsk, she just recently moved. She is alive, we even have her phone number. 
NAVIG: Yes, can we have it. 
VK: Gynecologist. 
VK: There she was, she was a young doctor. 
VERDEN: This one? 
VK: Yes. 
PI: Doctor-gynecologist. 
VERDEN: Was she present at the autopsy? Good… 
NAVIG: Not at the autopsy, but at the wash. 
VERDEN: And in general, in St. Petersburg, no one has moved from your friends? Is there no one else here? 
VK: You know, well there was Sichkar who worked somewhere in some neurological center or in some place Sichkar, a doctor. He spent 3 years in Ivdel, and after the Institute came here, he lives here. 
VERDEN: Did he have anything to do with the Dyatlov case? 
VK: How should I know, I don't know. 
NAVIG: We are only interested in this aspect. 
VK: Well, doctor, Taranova, now I'll look, let me get up. Photos of the dead, washed them there, stored? She (Pelageya Ivanovna - ed. note) only has an opinion, there is noway she could know, and I heard that they were put in the coffins immediately. But it turns out, they, you see, did the autopsy there. And if they did, then must be in the zone, because ... 
VERDEN: You know, the rumor could have appeared by mistake. That is, there is a certain level of personnel who knows that the corpses will be sent to Sverdlovsk. And that's all that matters for them, because their work is done. Then comes the second round, which knows that the corpses will not be sent right away, something like that. 
VK: And they could have done an autopsy in the surgical department of the zone. 
VERDEN: Of course, they could have come from the small town here in the zone and perform an autopsy. And people thought that they were taken to Sverdlovsk. 
PI: They had everything handy, everybody knew. 
VK: So an ambulance, not one, but it was ambulance, loaded the corpses, drove to the zone, and did it right there. 
VERDEN: Well yes, an ambulance could have shuttled between the small town and the zone. 
VK: No, not there, but next to the zone.
NAVIG: No, wait, the fact is that Pelageya Ivanovna says that they changed their clothes into new clothes. So did they take off their clothes for examination again? She (Pelageya Ivanovna - ed. note) can not confirm this, because she has forgotten it already. 
TUAPSE: And what rumors, what kind of talk was there in the city after this accident? 
VERDEN: Yes, what did people say, what were the rumors? 
VK: First in the city, you know what, there were rumors that they were dead, here and there ... 
VERDEN: And from what? 
VK: Well, they were saying that an autopsy will be performed to determine in what condition they would be. They said that Mansi must have attacked them. Because the tent was cut, you know. 
VERDEN: Were there any reasons for the population to think that the Mansi did it? Did Mansi generally had a habit of attacking civilians? Were there similar cases? 
VK: No, Mansi, in my opinion, are unlikely to attack. 
VERDEN: So you've never heard? 
VK: Although they say that there they had a sacred mountain, where is not allowed ... 
VERDEN: And there were no cases of attacks on geologists, there, or someone else? 
VK: No, there were not.

 

- 19 -

 

NAVIG: Let's continue with the rumors. 
VK: Ok. 300 kilometers from Ivdel there is a Mansi village. There, not far from the village, the administration of the Ivdel district built them a new settlement, so this nationality, doesn't perish completely. To help them sustain. 
VERDEN: Hence the rumors. Besides the Mansi, what other rumors did you hear? 
VK: Well, these rumors, they are such a benevolent people, if you visit them, you know, they give you what they have, help you what they can. 
NAVIG: And rumors about the Dyatlov group? 
VK: Well, nobody mentioned back then a landslide or some kind of shaft, there was no hurricane. Everybody said that must be rockets. 
VERDEN: Why did people think that they were rockets? Why didn't they think that was an avalanche? 
VK: Because an avalanche, who knows these mountains, especially, well, I understand the hurricane, such a hurricane can exist. Well, there are hurricanes that can raise a tractor, and throw it ... 
VK: It so happened that, I think I even heard that there was an atomic bomb near the mountains, they even tested it. 
VERDEN: So, there were such rumors at the time? 
VK: Yes, there were such rumors that even the radiation increased in Ivdel. Yes, and no one has published any information about this in the newspaper. The background could be published to people. Although this was all hidden. Radiation background. 
NAVIG: Now, I would like to, Pelageya Ivanovna ... All the same, you dressed them in clothes? 
PI: Well, I was dressing them, I had some help. 
TUAPSE: And who helped? 
VERDEN: And how did you dress them? They were corpses, how did you dress them? You cut the suit on theback, how do you dress a corpse? 
PI: First on the head, hands, and then pull them down, pants. 
TUAPSE: And who helped you? 
VK: Yes, there could and should be nurses. 
VERDEN: Who helped? 
VK: Who, some authorized people, could have been? 
PI: Orderlies maybe, I have forgotten already. 
VERDEN: You couldn't have been dressing them yourself? It's probably hard to put something on a corpse. 
VK: Well, of course, you can imagine. 
NAVIG: If they were dressed, then why do this? 
VERDEN: This doesn't make any sense at all.

End of recording.

 

27674881568_c18b85cd76_o.jpgVictor Konstantinovich and Pelageya Ivanovna Solter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Żródło: http://dyatlovpass.c...nterview-solter



#903 fortyck

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Napisano 20 kwiecień 2018 - 23:03

Решение правления Фонда «Памяти группы Дятлова» от 19.04.2018 г


Присутствовали: Кунцевич Ю., Бартоломей П., Яхонтова М., Анкудинов В, Якименко В., Будрин А., Зиновьев Е., Карелин В., Старцев А.

 

 

 

Повестка заседания:

 

1. Информация о действиях КП 12.04.2018г
2. Обсуждение события.
3. Подготовка ответа. 


Ответ для СМИ и интернет сообщества.

 

Эксгумация 12 апреля 2018 года.

 

Фонд «Памяти группы Дятлова» ( далее Фонд) не имеет претензий к КП, так как понимает, что СМИ действуют в своих коммерческих интересах.


В связи с этим выражаем свою озабоченность будущими результатами официальных следственных действий, которые предстоит осуществить, так как сейчас захоронение по факту разрушено.


Фонд надеется, что СМИ не будет предпринимать аналогичных (подпольных) действий в отношении остальных захоронений группы Дятлова и предупредит об этом Администрацию города Екатеринбурга и ЕМУП КСО.


Фонд всегда готов на совместные со СМИ действия по возобновлению следствия в связи с заявлениями родственников и вновь открывшимися обстоятельствами дела. 


Фонд высоко оценивает участие в расследовании КП, их физический и материальный вклад.

 

В связи с этим предлагаем принять участие в приглашении адвоката для ознакомления с «закрытыми» документами.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Żródło: https://www.facebook...100002205206402



#904 fortyck

fortyck

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Napisano 21 kwiecień 2018 - 23:54

INTERVIEW WITH SOLOMONOVICH, HISTORIAN-ETHNOGRAPHER, EXPERT OF THE IVDELLAG ON 13 MAY 2008

 

 

 

 

 

© NGO "INTERNET CENTER of the Dyatlov group tragedy", 2008.

 

The text of the conversation of the "Center for Civil Investigation of the Dyatlov Pass tragedy" NAVIG, with historian-ethnographer, expert of the Ivdelag Felix Yakovlevich Solomonovich, in Ivdel on the case of Dyatlov Pass incident on 13 May 2008 by phone.

 

* Clicking on an image will bring up the original photo

 

Dyatlov-Pass-Felix-Yakovlevich-Solomonov
Felix Yakovlevich and Polina Petrovna Solomonovich, and Petr Ruvimovich Perkin

 

NAVIG: Hello, here I've been given your phone in Ivdellag, so I can talk to you...
FY: I'm listening.
NAVIG: We are interested in the area in Ivdellag, which was managing forest development and something else there, the 41st district and the 2nd North included. And here in Ivdel there was some medical unit N-240, in my opinion, or No. 240.
FY: This institution was 240.
NAVIG: Institution? Wasn't it a medical unit?
FY: They were all under the name N-240.
NAVIG: All of them?
FY: All units. And then there were indexing, index 2, index 3, index 4 and so on.
NAVIG: It's clear, and when passing, for example, tourists of the Ivdel area, was there a mandatory registration on arrival and departure?
FY: Well, actually tourists had to register, but many were not doing it. For example, Dyatlov group perished, they went through, they were not registered anywhere.
NAVIG: That's it, my questions are just about this!
FY: That Institution has nothing to do with them.
NAVIG: The fact is that in the autopsy reports it says that they conducted an examination in this medical unit N240.
FY: You understand, now you can say anything, in fact now, well, it did not come out right now, but some time ago, this big article came out by the north-Urals comrade, his name is Yuri Yakimov.
NAVIG: Well, this friend we know from Sverdlovsk.
FY: He read a lot of material on these matters concerning everybody. And his version of the events I like best.
NAVIG: Ну нас интересуют факты. Дело в том, что в деле подписи стоят эксперта Возрожденного. Well, we are interested in the facts. The fact is that in the autopsy reports are signed by expert Vozrozhdenny.
FY: Yes, it's all nonsense. Yes, I am aware of all these many cases, because at that time I worked as the chairman of the sports committee in Ivdel.
NAVIG: Yes?
FY: Yes, at teh same time when they started looking for the students. I just came to work in the sports committee. And I knew perfectly well Korotaev, the investigator, who was in charge.
NAVIG: This is what he says, I talked to him personally.
FY: Well, I knew Volodya Korotaeva, I knew him perfectly well because we worked together in the Komsomol. But the fact is that you understand, all this is talk, nobody specifically, nobody really ...
NAVIG: I undertsand, in your opinion, where is the archive of this medical unit?
FY: I think the archive of the medical unit is in Sverdlovsk, for sure.
NAVIG: in Sverdlovsk, you think?
FY: Yes, there.
NAVIG: We want to make an official request. The fact is that, for example, here is the wife of Strauh, she worked here just in the medical unit. She says that Dyatlov group were packed and sent in special carriage to Sverdlovsk. And Korotaev says that he was personally present at ...
FY: Who said that?
NAVIG: Korotaev Vladimir Ivanovich.
FY: He is correct, the autopsy was done in Ivdel, and not even outside the zone, but the autopsy was done in the in the zone.
NAVIG: Yes, in the zone. Were you there at that time?
FY: I was not in the zone.
NAVIG: No, well, did you live in Ivdel?
FY: Of course I was in Ivdel at that time. They performed the autopsy in the zone, and only after the opening in the zone they were sent to Sverdlovsk.
NAVIG: Well, was there one group of tourists or two?
FY: There was one group that was dead.
NAVIG: Well, the fact is that Strauch's wife, and there was surgeon Prudkov, his nurse Solter, they claim ... Well, the surgeon already died, you see.
FY: Yes, the surgeon has died.
NAVIG: And she says that they did not cut them open there, but they sent them right away, and a version appeared that it was ...
FY: Ну, Коротаев присутствовал при вскрытиях при всех, он и второй следователь был Иванов еще , они присутствовали при этих вскрытиях при всех. Well, Korotaev was present at the autopsy on all, he and the second investigator Ivanov, they were present at the autopsies on all. 
NAVIG: I see. But these people don't lie, so there is a version that there were two groups.

 

Dyatlov-pass-Ivdel-militia-1956.jpg
Police in Ivdel 1956

 

- 2 -

 

FY: No, there were not two groups.
NAVIG: No?
FY: No, the searches went for one group. In Ivdel there are many employees of the Institute, the military unit was here as well. The military unit, the military personnel and the hikers of the city participated in the search but did not look for anyone except the Dyatlov group.
NAVIG: Did the organs actively participate there??
FY: The organs were very active, because they were connected, the military unit was there, there was also military unit 6602. It was involved, the rulers of the department worked there. The military unit was there, the security of the zones was 6602. This part was established in 56, three years later, this happened. Before that, there was no military unit in Ivdel.
NAVIG: There were all kinds of light balls flying, can you say anything about that?
FY: What are you saying?
NAVIG: Some glowing objects flew across the sky.
FY: I don't think so, it's not just me, you can ask anybody that lived Ivdel at that time. We had fireballs over Ivdel very often.
NAVIG: Well, it's because there were some rockets, right?
FY: Yes, we thought it was a launch. You see, what's interesting is that a ball of fire will fly by, in 2-3 days will be an announcement that in the Soviet Union a spaceship has been launched there or some kind of artificial satellite. So it's hard to say something, because we didn't really know anything. The thing is that after that, somewhere in the 90s, it means that in the 90s the head of the city, there was such a Ugarov Vitaly Evgenievich, he created a special commission to check those places, whether there are any polygons there. The commission did not confirm anything, denied everything completely. So it's difficult to say anything now. I'm going to advise you to turn to the medical unit in Sverdlovsk, now there are two medical departments, one of the GUIN, the second medical department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. You need to turn to th emedical department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Address is Repin, 4A. They can and they have to tell you where to find the materials you need. You will not find anything in Ivdel, there is no management office in Ivdel anymore. Management ended its existence in 2006.
NAVIG: Well, does the zone exist?
FY: The zone, yes, there are separate colonies, but the Office itself, which was at the Head of all these things, is not there now.
NAVIG: And this medical unit, does it still exist?
FY: No, there is no medical unit anymore, all of it, there aren't any departments, there is nothing left. There is only a polyclinic, which is subordinated directly to Sverdlovsk. It is like a rehabilitation center, it has nothing to do with prisoners.
NAVIG: Is it for civilians?
FY: It serves military personnel, superiors, and civilians, everybody. And the zone serves Sverdlovsk only, and it is serving everybody.
NAVIG: Did you know Prudkov?
FY: Yosif Davydovich, I personally knew him very well.
NAVIG: Did he tell you anything?
FY: What about? About, no ... He did not say anything, he soon left Ivdel.
NAVIG: The fact is that we turned to his son, he is now...
FY: He does not know anything, he was young then
NAVIG: No, he told us that his father did not say anything to them and then forbid them to talk about it.
FY: Yes, he could have done anything, they wouldn't have said anything to them ... The fact is that he has 2 sons, not one, two.
NAVIG: Two sons?
FY: He has two sons, son Michail, and the second son was Alexander.
NAVIG: Well, we talked to Alexander.
FY: Alexander is born in 57, what could he tell you?
NAVIG: Well, that's right, he did not say anything.
FY: But you can talk to Mikhail.
NAVIG: I see, well, we'll find him, yes.
FY: I think you will find him.
NAVIG: Yes. Well, it's clear, if there are any questions, then I'll call you back.
FY: Yes, for God's sake, don't hesitate to call me at any time, I will share what I know on the matter.
NAVIG: I remembered another thing, do you know anybody who worked there at that time?
FY: Where? In Ivdel?
NAVIG: No, just in this medical unit, if they were present at any events that might be related.
FY: Honestly, I'm not going to answer this question right now.
NAVIG: No, well, not right away. I'll call you later.
FY: You see, 49 years have already passed, it's a lot of time.
NAVIG: Well, they will be old people already.
NAVIG: I wish you success.
FY: Same to you. If anything, please call, I will help you at any time.

End of conversation.

 

Dyatlov-pass-Ivdel-party-committee-1960-

Это весь партийный аппарат г. Ивделя

  1. Ugarov E.S. - First Secretary of the CPSU CC
  2. Gubin Alexander Dimitrievich - Secretary of the Ivdel city party committee

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Żródło: http://dyatlovpass.c...ew-solomonovich

 

 


#905 fortyck

fortyck

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Napisano 23 kwiecień 2018 - 21:09

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ACT № 199 Forensic expertise on the tent
Written on April 16, 1959.
The case of the death of student tourists from Dyatlov group.
 
April 3, 1959 from the Prosecutor's Office of Sverdlovsk region under the order of 16 / III-59. criminal prosecutor Jr. Justice Adviser Ivanova L.N. for the production of forensic examination entered the tourist tent of the Dyatlov group, found at the scene.
 
The following problems are assigned to the expertise:
  1. Is Dyatlov group tent cut?
  2. If yes, are the cuts made from inside or outside?

 

The production of this expertise was entrusted to the expert-criminalist Churkina H. E. with a higher legal education and experience as an expert in the field since 1954.
The expert has been warned on criminal liability under articles 92 and 95 of the RSFSR Criminal Code.
 
Circumstance of the case
February 1, 1959 on the slopes of Mount "1079" а group of tourists consisting of 9 people met their tragic death.
The group suddenly abandoned the tent.
The investigation has reason to believe that the tent was cut by someone.
 
Inspection and investigation
Camping tent of a group of tourists under the direction of Dyatlov, found on the scene, presented for research in a disorderly-crumpled form.
To recreate the situation close to the situation of the scene, with the help and advice of the tourist Yudin Y., the tent in question was pitched and reinforced in such a way as it is usually arranged by the hikers when camping /see example scheme №1/.
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photo №1
The tent is made of thick cotton fabric of protective color.
The total length of the tent /by the top seam/ is 4m.33 cm, the length of the side is 1 m. 14 cm, the total width is about 2 m.
The height of the tent depends on its installation.
From the left end of the tent there is a hole that serves as an entrance.
This hole is formed by two non-sewn halves of the fabric and from the inside is creped with a white sheet.
From the right end there is a small round hole sewn in the form of a sleeve and intended for ventilation.
From the side edges on the tent attached loops with twine, serving to strengthen it.
There is no twine at the end of the right skate.
The tent is worn down.
When inspecting the tent, it is established that on its surface there are numerous damages, especially on the right slant of the canopy forming the roof /see scheme №1/.
With a careful examination of these damages, it is established that some of them /and in particular conditionally marked damages №1,2,3/ have a completely different nature compared to all the other damages that are on the tent.
The edges of these three lesions have even, not elongated ends of the threads, are damaged at different angles, breaking both the weft threads and the warp threads.
All woven items /unlike jersey, leather etc./, despite a sharp difference in appearance /raw material, thickness, surface character/ always consist of 3 systems of threads - warp and weft, interwoven perpendicular to each other.
The damage resulting from tears usually follows the line of least resistance, i.e. tear either the threads of the weft, or the warp threads.
Such damage is usually very smooth and has right angles.
The cut, under any conditions, always disrupts both those and other threads at different angles randomly.
Cut only either the threads of the weft, or the warp threads is almost impossible. /see scheme №2 /.
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photo №2
As a result of the foregoing, and when examining the edges of all the damages on the tent, one can conclude that three damages /conditionally marked № 1, 2, 3 / came as a result of contact with some sharp weapon /knife/, i.e. are cuts.
Yet the rest of the damage is a tear.
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photo №3
Damage # 1 is shaped in the form of a broken straight line, its total length is 32 cm.
Above it there is a small puncture of the tissue in 2 cm.
The corners of the hole are torn. /see photo №4 /.
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photo №4
Damage # 2 and 3 have a non-uniform arcuate shape.
The approximate length of these lesions is 89 cm and 42 cm. from the right edge of damage # 2 and from both edges of damage # 3 there are no cloth flaps and it is possible that they had their continuation further.
In order to determine from which side the indicated cuts were made (from the inner one - from the tent or from the outside), a thorough microscopic examination of the edges of the cuts of the adjacent tissue sections was made / zoom level from 0.6 to 56X / .
As a result of the conducted studies it was found that from the inside of the tent in the areas of the cuts close to the edges there are surface damages of the fabric in the form of minor punctures, incisions of the fabric threads and very thin scratches. /see photo № 5-13 /.
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photos №5 and 6
 
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photo №7
 
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photo №12
All scratches and punctures are rectilinear.
Scratches are observed in the surface damage of the filaments: the filaments are either cut in half / see photo № 10 /, or with them the dye is simply scratched off and not the colored parts are visible / see photo № 5, 6, 11 /.
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photo №10 and 11
At the corners of the punctures, on the inside of the tent / unlike the outer tent, there are, as it were, continuations of damage, which are expressed in the form of thin scratches. /see photo № 8, 9 /.
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photo №8 and 9
The nature and shape of all these injuries indicate that they were formed from the contact of the fabric of the inner side of the tent with the blade of some weapon /knife/.
All of the above indicates that the existing incisions are made from the inside, from the tent.
 
CONCLUSION
In the camping tent of Dyatlov group on the right slant of the canopy forming the roof, three damages of approximately 32, 89, and 42 cm in length /conditionally numbered 1, 2, 3 / are made with some sharp weapon /knife/ i.e. are cuts.
All these cuts are done on the inside of the tent.
SR. RESEARCH ASSOCIATE Churkina - signature /CHURKINA/
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Żródło: https://www.facebook.com/dyatlovmania/



#906 fortyck

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Napisano 23 kwiecień 2018 - 21:21

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Questions about the tent

What was the mode of closing of the tent - buttons (пуговицы), straps?

 

Some sources say that the tent was found fastened and only two of the lower buttons were unfastened.
I can't find a document that says so.
Found an interview with Slobtsov from 6 May 2015 which doesn't make it any clearer.
In the case files it says
"From the left end of the tent there is a hole that serves as an entrance.
This hole is formed by two non-sewn halves of the fabric and from the inside is creped with a white sheet."
("С левого торца палатки имеется отверстие, служащее дверью.
Указаное отверстие образовано двумя не сшитыми половинками ткани и с внутренней стороны задрепировано белой простынью.")
Nothing more on the closing and how it was found, fastened (with what?) or not.
~ If Zolotaryov and Tibo went out to pee, saw something in the sky, Zolotaryov went back for his camera and called the rest to see the light show in the sky, that is why they were with no shoes and Tibo and Zolotrayov were wearing valenki.
But if the tent was fastened, I don't see the perpetrators going in and bother to fasten the tent unless they spend time inside and didn't want to be cold, which is far fetched.
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Dyatlov group tent mode of closing was with wooden toggles, but we don't have any clue if they were fastened or not
Answer:
The only reliable fact is that the tent had buttons, but special ones - wooden toggles (клеванты).
All other things - was the tent fastened or not etc. are just the wild guesses.
Was the tent cut on the other side?
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Alex KAN tent interpretation
Are the cuts really see through?
Where that many tears on the back of the tent that we don't see?
Is there a document about this?
Source ~ If they allegedly cut the tent to escape there is no reason to cut it on both sides, not to this extend.
 
Answer:
When inspecting the tent, it is established that on its surface there are numerous damages, especially on the right slant of the canopy forming the roof /see scheme №1/.
( “При осмотре данной палатки установлено, что на её поверхности имеются многочисленные повреждения , особенно на правом скосе полотна, образующего крышу /см.схему №1/. “)
The word especially implies that were some cuts on the other side too, just not as many.
Was the tent tampered with?
41614327562_79b6c371e7_o.jpg
This photo is not from 1959, just visualizing my question.
Social media postings hard to link to build theories on the "fact" that the skis under the tent were not positioned properly i.e. were the wrong side up which would testify to the doctoring of the scene.
 
Answer:
Nothing suspicious.
On the contrary - testimonies from 1959 say that all was done quite professionally.
How steep was the slope where the tent was pitched
41614383922_ee06c1ec8a_o.jpg
original photograph
Official protocol report on the Dyatlov group tent:
"Tent site is located on the North- eastern slope of mountain 1079 (Kholat Syakhl official term) meters at the mouth of river Auspiya.
Tent site is located 300 meters from the top of the mountain 1079 with a slope of 30 °..."
 
Second read on the photos
Rescuers removed hikers belongings, folded the tent and carried them down the slope for the convenience of the subsequent evacuation.
From beneath the tent they removed three pairs of skis, two of which were given to the hunters Moiseev and Mostovoy that were transporting the items and one pair was used to mark the location of Dyatlov and Kolmogorova's bodies.
On the photos we can see captured this precise moment: the tent is completely disassembled and pushed to the side, out from under the skis of the hikers are removed, rescuers are moving down the slope.
41614384042_d87093426b_o.jpg
The two people standing to the left are journalist Yuri Yarovoy and the prosecutor criminologist Lev Ivanov.
This photo is especially valuable because it allows us to measure the steepness of the slope of the mountain Kholat Syakhl right where the tent was pitched.
The original photograph is tilted to the left, but the standing straight figures of Yarovoy and Ivanov can be used as a reference points to straighten the photo and measure the slope which is only 15 degrees.
This is not more than the angle of climbing for stairs and escalators.
 

Why the group pitched their tent at this spot on the night of the incident

 

 

Theory 1
On January 31, the group arrived at the edge of a highland area and began to prepare for climbing.
In a wooded valley they cached surplus food and equipment that would be used for the trip back.
The following day (February 1), the hikers started to move through the pass.
It seems they planned to get over the pass and make camp for the next night on the opposite side, but because of worsening weather conditions–snowstorms and decreasing visibility–they lost their direction and deviated west, up towards the top of Kholat Syakhl.
When they realized their mistake, the group decided to stop and set up camp there on the slope of the mountain, rather than moving 1.5 km (0.93 mi) downhill to a forested area which would have offered some shelter from the elements.
Yudin, the lone survivor, postulated that "Dyatlov probably did not want to lose the altitude they had gained, or he decided to practice camping on the mountain slope. "
 
Theory 2
It is judged, based on the weather information available, what had been written in their journals and on information about the group's progress by Yuri Yudin, that they would have reached the slopes of Kholat Syakhl sometime in the afternoon of 1 Feb.
At that latitude and time of year sunset is 1658, so it can be reasonably assumed that they got to the point were they pitched tent 60 minutes or so before then in order to give them time to erect the tent in daylight.
Their final destination was Mount Otorten, and it was not feasible for them to have continued on at night.
We can never know precisely why Dyatlov ordered the tent pitched were he did, but I doubt it was because they were lost.
They were in fact on the correct route to Otorten.
Also, if they managed to find their way about 1,500m to the treeline in the dark and in some difficulty after leaving the tent in a panic, they why could they not find their way to the treeline in daylight, and in good order?
It must be presumed, without evidence to the contrary, that Dyatlov had intended to pitch the tent on the slopes of Kholat Syakhl.
It is of course speculation that this was to give the group an extra challenge.
Another factor is that when dawn broke, their destination, Mount Otorten, would be visible from their tent.
This, after a difficult journey, would be good for moral as they could see their destination.
This of course is speculation, but I do not believe they were lost and bumbling about.
And to re-iterate, if they were lost, why could they make it to the treeline in the dark in a panic, and not in daylight in good order.
 
 
 
 
 

Żródło: https://www.facebook.com/dyatlovmania/



#907 fortyck

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Napisano 24 kwiecień 2018 - 22:24

Tent 1957-1958

 

Treks in 1957 and 1958, same tent with the chimney of Dyatlov's custom made stove sticking out - photos from Dubinina's family archive.

 

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Żródło: https://www.facebook.com/dyatlovmania/



#908 fortyck

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Napisano 27 kwiecień 2018 - 21:36

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Żródło: https://www.facebook.com/dyatlovmania/



#909 fortyck

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Napisano 29 kwiecień 2018 - 21:39

Тайна перевала Дятлова.

 

Это был удар большой силы

«Комсомолка» получила первые результаты эксгумации тела, предположительно, Семена Золотарева
 
 

 
 
inx960x640.jpgЭксперт Сергей Никитин проводит метод фотоналоженияФото: Алексей БУЛАТОВ

Напомним, зимой 1959 года в горах Северного Урала пропали девять туристов, ушедших в поход под руководством Игоря Дятлова.

 

Через месяц спасатели обнаружили их разрезанную палатку.

 

А в радиусе полутора километров от нее - пять замерзших тел.

 

Трупы остальных нашли только в мае.

 

Почти все туристы были разутые и полураздетые.

 

У некоторых - смертельные травмы.

 

До сих пор не разгадано, почему ребята убежали на лютый мороз и на свою погибель.

 

 

"Комсомольская правда" организовала эксгумацию тела самого загадочного члена группы Дятлова: Продолжение расследования

 
 

12 апреля на Ивановском кладбище Екатеринбурга мы провели эксгумацию тела одного из самых загадочных участников группы Дятлова - Семена Золотарева.

 

Будем пока что говорить с приставкой – предположительно – Золотарева, поскольку еще не готова экспертиза ДНК.

 

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Тот самый момент, когда был найден черепФото: АЛЕКСЕЙ БУЛАТОВ

Нас спрашивают: зачем вы это сделали?

 

Отвечаем:

 

1. Установить личность того, кто лежит в могиле под памятным знаком с табличкой «Семен Золотарев».

 

Документов на это захоронение нет ни у родственников, ни в службе городских кладбищ.

 

А стало быть вообще неясно, захоронен ли кто-то там?

 

 

2. А если останки в могиле есть, то оценить характер травм скелета.

 

По нашей просьбе эксгумацию проводил судебно-медицинский эксперт Московского бюро судебно-медицинской экспертизы Сергей Никитин.

 

Также на кладбище присутствовала исследователь трагедии, врач Галина Сазонова.

 

С ними мы и поговорили в эфире радио «Комсомольская правда» (97,2 Москва), где рассказали о первых результатах экспертиз.

 

Приведем расшифровку разговора.

 

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Эксперт Сергей Никитин моет череп для метода фотоналоженияФото: АЛЕКСЕЙ БУЛАТОВ

 

ОТКУДА ВЗЯЛИСЬ КАМНИ?

 

Сергей Никитин (СН): Могила оказалась очень своеобразной.

 

Возник даже вопрос, типично ли такое захоронение.

 

Оказалось, что могила на 90 процентов засыпана крупными кусками гранита и пересыпана мелкой гранитной крошкой.

 

Корреспонденты (Кор): Есть мнение, что могилу вскрывали, а потом просто завалили камнями.

 

СН: Я полагаю, что на Ивановском кладбище почти все могилы засыпаны камнями, так как оно находится на горе.

 

Когда все камни были извлечены, мы обнаружили скелет, который лежит в положении на спине, ногами - на восток.

 

Это православная ориентация.

 

Начали извлекать кости скелета.

 

На листах картона мы с Галиной раскладывали кости в анатомическом порядке.

 

В частности, Галина раскладывала ребра.

 

Я в это время занимался черепом.

 

Его надо было отмыть, посушить.

 

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Фото могилы Семена Золотарева на Ивановском кладбище, сделанное в 1959 году

Кор: Вы взяли в руки череп и сразу сказали, что это череп мужчины и ему 35-40 лет.

 

СН: При подобных исследованиях изначально решается вопрос: пол, возраст, расовый тип человека.

 

Так вот этот скелет принадлежит мужчине, возраст – в пределах 35-40 лет, расовый тип – европеоидный.

 

Даже отдельные кости могут быть объектом определения возраста.

 

Но наиболее информативным является череп, а на нем – зубы. Вернее, их степень изношенности.

 

Они позволяют более объективно и точно определить возраст по специальной таблице.

 

Скелет этого мужчины укладывался в пределы 35-40 лет.

 

А Золотареву должно было исполниться 38 лет.

 

Еще мы оцениваем стоматологический статус.

 

Оцениваем следы стоматологического вмешательства.

 

Абсолютно точно состояние зубов соответствовало тому, которое было описано при вскрытии в 1959 году.

 

Те же коронки из нержавеющей стали на тех же зубах.

 

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Фото Семена, по которому эксперт Сергей Никитин делал фотоналожение

Кор: Там была одна интересная коронка.

 

СН: Да, своеобразная коронка седьмого зуба, смежный зуб был на одном корне.

 

А эта коронка – на втором корешке.

 

Это особенности подхода стоматолога.

 

Видимо, он решил, что наиболее оптимально будет провести вмешательство таким образом.

 

Кор: Может ли эта фальшкоронка быть некой шпионской закладкой?

 

Извините за такой вопрос, но его задают на форумах.

 

СН: Это просто особенности стоматологического вмешательства.

 

Врач решил максимально сохранить корешки, которые имелись, чтобы человек мог более полноценно жевать.

 

Галина Сазонова (ГС): Характерны ли такие протезы для постановки в местах заключения?

 

(Есть версия, что вместо Семена похоронили беглого зека, - Ред.)

 

СН: Это обычная работа стоматолога.

 

Несколько выше среднего уровня.

 

Ничем замечательным она не отличается.

 

Обычные коронки из нержавеющей стали.

 

ГС: Я помогала только на первом этапе, когда еще очищали кости от земли, работали кисточкой.

 

Я делала предварительную фильтрацию костей.

 

Я не делала экспертную раскладку скелета.

 

Прошу вас ответить на вопрос: куда делся передний зуб?

 

СН: Эта потеря произошла 12 апреля нынешнего года, в процессе извлечения черепа из могилы.

 

У нас не было времени искать его.

 

Он остался в могиле.

 

ГС: Были ли другие повреждения черепа?

 

СН: Череп поврежден не был.

 

Вся травматизация пришлась на грудную клетку.

 

ГС: Почему не остались волосы?

 

СН: Это частное явление.

 

В каких-то могилах при определенных условиях волосы сохраняются.

 

Даже по прошествии сотен лет прекрасно сохраняются волосы.

 

А где-то они не сохраняются.

 

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Портрет Семена и изображение его черепа совпало по 13-ти основным позициямФото: АЛЕКСЕЙ БУЛАТОВ

 

 

ПОЛНОЕ СОВПАДЕНИЕ

 

Кор: Что такое метод фотоналожения, который вы использовали?

 

СН: Этот метод был разработан в 1956 году Юрием Михайловичем Кубицким, советским военным экспертом.

 

Он догадался, что можно идентифицировать человека, наложив фотографическое изображение на изображение черепа.

 

Череп находится на подставке перед фотоаппаратом.

 

В те времена на матовое стекло видоискателя накладывался негатив фотографии.

 

Путем вращения, перемещения черепа и отдаления-приближения его по отношению к объективу происходило вписывание черепа по точкам, сравнение контуров.

 

И после этого констатация, есть ли совпадение этих контуров.

 

Кор: По каким точкам совмещают изображение?

 

СН: Основные точки – ушные, точки углов глаз, подносовая точка, точка линии смыкания губ, подбородочная точка, контуры теменной, теменно-височный, височный, нижний контур лица.

 

Есть ряд других точек.

 

Максимально можно оценить около 24 признаков, если у нас есть качественная фотография лысого человека и если череп не имеет существенных утрат.

 

Но для опознания достаточно и 12 признаков при условии, что мы определяем пол человека и его возраст.

 

В нашем случае совпали 13 признаков.

 

Это говорит о том, что это останки Семена Золотарева.

 

 

ОН ЛЕЖАЛ НА ЧЕМ-ТО ТВЕРДОМ

 

ГС: В 1959 году эксперт описал, что линий переломов ребер у Золотарева было две.

 

«После извлечения органокомплекса из грудной и брюшной полости определяются переломы второго, третьего, четвертого, пятого, шестого ребер справа по окологрудинной и средней подмышечной линии».

 

Насколько это совпало с тем, что увидели мы?

 

СН: Это совпало практически полностью.

 

За исключением маленькой несущественной поправки.

 

Я бы определил подмышечную линию не как среднюю, а как заднюю подмышечную линию.

 

Некоторые кости не были исследованы.

 

Мы посмотрели правую лопатку, там были три перелома.

 

В акте этого отмечено не было.

 

Я предположил сначала, что это посмертная травма.

 

Вся могила была завалена кусками гранита, давление на кости скелета приличное.

 

Но потом я провел переоценку, ведь левая лопатка оказалась цела.

 

Если бы были посмертные повреждения, логично предположить, что были бы поломаны и левая лопатка, и множественные переломы вообще были бы других костей скелета.

 

ГС: Да, мы не видели этих повреждений.

 

Мы находили гораздо более хрупкие кости.

 

Даже щитовидный хрящ.

 

И сам череп не раздавлен.

 

Получается, этот вес не оказывал воздействия на кости.

 

СН: Камни в процессе укладки, при закапывании могилы после похорон сложились в виде свода.

 

Вниз они не давят.

 

Ребра были сломаны справа, и правая лопатка.

 

Это укладывается в механизм образования переломов ребер.

 

ГС: Правильно ли говорить о том, что мы оцениваем грудную клетку как конструкцию и говорим о конструкционных переломах?

 

То есть одно воздействие могло вызывать несколько переломов?

 

СН: Это говорит о том, что зона контакта, воздействия превышала размеры от первого до шестого ребра.

 

Это была большая тяжелая масса.

 

Скорее всего, снег.

 

ГС: Можно определить, когда были получены данные травмы?

 

СН: Наличие крови в плевральной полости у Золотарева однозначно говорит о том, что это было прижизненно.

 

ГС: В какой позе находился человек в момент получения травмы?

 

СН: Однозначно можно сказать, что он находился лежа на спине.

 

И травматическое воздействие происходило спереди назад, может быть, несколько справа налево.

 

ГС: Поверхность, на которой лежал человек, была относительно твердой?

 

СН: Да.

 

Маловероятно, что он лежал в снегу.

 

ГС: Вы обнаружили, что не все ребра сломаны одинаково.

 

Можно ли говорить, что сила, которая действовала на грудную клетку, максимально действовала там, где ребра сломаны полностью?

 

А там, где они не доломались, вроде как воздействие было ниже?

 

СН: При подобной компрессии и при подобных переломах по подмышечной линии ребра сломались в результате чрезмерного сгибания.

 

Это называется сгибательный характер переломов.

 

По окологрудинной линии характер переломов был разгибательный.

 

Это говорит о том, что травматическое воздействие происходило в тот момент, когда человек находился лежа на спине, и подсказывает направление травмирующей массы.

 

ГС: Это вариант, как будто сдавило бетонной плитой?

 

Или это вариант ударной компрессии?

 

Есть версия, что упала большая масса снега.

 

СН: Было ли это ударное воздействие или медленное сдавливание в течение какого-то времени?

 

Когда исследуется труп не в такой степени изменения, в какой пребывал труп Золотарева на момент вскрытия, есть мягкие ткани, подкожная жировая клетчатка, то можно оценить кровоизлияние в подкожную жировую клетчатку.

 

Если бы это был удар, то мы бы увидели в мышцах и подкожной жировой клетчатке кровоизлияния.

 

Если это масса типа снежного слоя сдавливала постепенно, вряд ли мы это кровоизлияние увидели бы.

 

ГС: Кровоизлияния были отмечены при вскрытии.

 

И на гистологии, и в акте.

 

СН: Это говорит о том, что это было резкое сдавление, резкое воздействие.

 

Не постепенное.

 

 

Кор: Это похоже на удар, скажем, автомобиля?

 

СН: Автомобиль – это как сравнение.

 

В нашем случае можно говорить, что это было ударное воздействие большой массы.

 

ГС: Взрывная волна могла быть?

 

СН: Исключается полностью.

 

Травмы были бы другого характера.

 

 

ОТЧЕГО СЛУЧИЛСЯ ПЕРЕЛОМ?

 

Кор: На малой берцовой кости ноги была обнаружена костная мозоль, которая свидетельствует о прижизненном переломе.

 

Но есть мнение, что у Семена никогда не было травм.

 

СН: При исследовании был обнаружен след давнего прижизненного перелома правой малой берцовой кости в средней ее части.

 

О давности перелома судить невозможно.

 

ГС: Можно ли судить о характере заживления по такой костной мозоли?

 

СН: Две половины были сопоставлены по оси.

 

Смещения не было.

 

Банальный перелом.

 

Может, он в детстве образовался.

 

Золотарев прошел всю войну.

 

Пулевое ранение – вряд ли.

 

Хотя по-всякому могло быть.

 

Если пуля простреливает кость, это будет дефект – укорочение кости.

 

 

ОТ АВТОРОВ

МОГ ЛИ ТУРИСТ С ТАКИМИ ТРАВМАМИ ПРОЙТИ ПОЛТОРА КМ ПО СКЛОНУ?

 

Мы благодарим Сергея Никитина и Галину Сазонову за интересную беседу, за проделанную работу.

 

И хотим добавить, что в справке о смерти Семена Золотарева, выданной 12 мая 1959 года ЗАГСом Екатеринбурга маме Семена, значится, что он погиб из «действия низкой температуры».

 

Как показывают результаты проведенных экспертиз, это не вся правда.

 

После эфира мы задали дополнительные вопросы эксперту Никитину, чтобы уточнить картину произошедшего.

 

- Если предположить, что огромный пласт снега накрыл туриста, будем думать, Семена Золотарева, когда он лежал в палатке, то мог ли Золотарев передвигаться с такими травмами?

 

- Думаю, мог, но кое-как.

 

А вот Люда Дубинина вряд ли.

 

У нее произошла общая деформация грудной клетки и ее травмы были более сильными.

 

- Когда Семена нашли в ручье, то на его груди был фотоаппарат.

 

Достаточно тяжелая вещь по тем временам.

 

Мог ли он идти с такими травмами и с фотоаппаратом на шее?

 

- Вряд ли фотоаппарат мешал ему передвигаться.

 

Но мы не можем однозначно сказать, где он получил травму ребер.

 

Можно допустить такой вариант.

 

В ручье были найдены двое человек с травмами ребер и еще один с травмой черепа.

 

Поэтому нельзя исключить версию, что они выкопали пещеру в районе оврага, но снег обвалился и накрыл их.

 

Однако нам еще предстоит подробно разобрать характер травм ребер Семена.

 

Мы планируем провести более тщательную экспертизу скелета на основе фото- и видео материалов, которые были отсняты во время эксгумации.

 

Если вам.

 

Уважаемые читатели, что-то известно о Семене Золотареве или, может быть, ваши воевавшие отцы, деды упоминали эту фамилию, просим написать нам по адресам:vars@kp.rukonata@kp.ru

 

Либо звоните по телефону: 8(495)637-64-97 (доб. 2291).

 

 

В ТЕМУ

 

Скоро под перевалом Дятлова обнаружат секретный завод по производству химического оружия

 

Так предрекают наши корреспонденты, изучающие одну из тайн прошлого века

 

Вокруг загадочной трагедии на Северном Урале зимой 1959 года, когда погибли 9 туристов-лыжников, как и вокруг всякой громкой темы, мечется своя группа интернет-извращенцев.

 

Их забавляет делать всякие ложные вбросы по данной истории, а потом глядеть, как публика и даже иные СМИ обсуждают очередную глупость.

 

Уж сколько было «свидетелей, которые слышали от умирающего деда настоящую правду о гибели группы». (подробности)

 

 

Перевал Дятлова: Последний свидетель погибшей группы расскажет на детекторе лжи свою версию трагедии

 

В деле о смерти туристов в уральских горах по-прежнему остается немало странностей.

 

"Комсомолка" продолжает расследование загадочной истории «Комсомольская правда» и Первый канал уж давно ведут расследование этой трагедии. 

 

Недавно в программе «На самом деле» мы развеяли одну из версий, которую выдвигали иные исследователи – что самый старший участник того похода Семен Золотарев остался в живых и уехал в Израиль.

 

Назывался конкретный человек, который якобы раньше был Семеном Золотаревым.

 

Этого человека привезли в студию, где и выяснилось, что к Семену Золотареву он никакого отношения не имеет.

 

Так одним мифом стало меньше. (подробности)

 

 

 

Еще больше материалов по теме: «ПЕРЕВАЛ ДЯТЛОВА»

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Żródło: https://www.ural.kp..../26824/3861696/



#910 fortyck

fortyck

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Napisano 30 kwiecień 2018 - 22:21

41768177582_5f0fa597ca_o.jpg

 

The secret of Dyatlov Pass.
It was a very powerful blow.
"Komsomolskaya Pravda" received the first results of exhumation of the body of Semyon Zolotaryov
All rights belong to Komsomolskaya Pravda.
Authors Nikolai Varsegov, TV and radio presenter Anton Chelyshev and Natalya Varsegova.
Photo correspondent Aleksey Bulatov
41768177582_5f0fa597ca_o.jpg
Expert Sergey Nikitin conducting a skull superimposition
In recollection, nine tourists leaded by Igor Dyatlov went on a trek in the winter of 1959 in the mountains of the Northern Urals.
A month later the rescuers discovered their cut tent.
And in a radius of one and a half kilometers from it - five frozen bodies.
The corpses of the rest were found only in May.
Almost all the tourists were stripped and half-dressed.
Some had fatal injuries.
It is not clear even to these days why the hikers ran away at a severe cold to their demise.
On April 12 at the Ivanovskoe Cemetery in Yekaterinburg, we exhumed the body of one of the most mysterious members of Dyatlov's group - Semyon Zolotaryov.
We will talk for the time being with the prefix - presumably - Zolotaryov, because DNA expertise is not yet ready.
41810245031_3b512cfec2_o.jpg
The very moment when the skull was found
We are asked: why did you do this?
We answer:
  1. Identify who lies in the grave under a tomb sign "Semyon Zolotaryov". There are no documents for this burial either from relatives or from the service of urban cemeteries. And it became absolutely unclear whether someone was buried there.
  2. And if we find remains in the grave, then we can evaluate the nature of the injuries of the skeleton.

 

At our request, exhumation was conducted by forensic expert of the Moscow Bureau of Forensic Expertise Sergey Nikitin.
Also at the cemetery was a tragedy researcher, doctor Galina Sazonova.
We talked with them on the radio "Komsomolskaya Pravda" (97.2 Moscow), where they commented on the first results of the examinations.
Here is the transcript of the conversation.
 

Where did the stones come from?

 

Sergey Nikitin (SN): The grave turned out to be very peculiar.
There was even a question, whether such burial is typical.
It turned out that the grave was covered 90 percent with large pieces of granite and sprinkled with fine granite.
Correspondents (Cor): There is talk that the grave was opened, and then it was simply filled up with stones.
SN: I believe that in Ivanovskoe Cemetery almost all the graves are covered with stones, as it is on the mountain.
When all the stones were extracted, we found the skeleton, which lies in the position on the back, legs - to the east.
This is Orthodox orientation.
They began to extract the bones of the skeleton.
Galina and I laid out the bones in anatomical order on the sheets of cardboard.
In particular, Galina was laying out his ribs.
I was at that time handling the skull.
It had to be washed and drained.
41810244701_76514231e6_o.jpg
Galina Sazonova laying down the ribs
Cor: You took the skull in your hands and immediately said that it was the skull of a man and he was 35-40 years old.
SN: In such studies, the first questions to answer are: gender, age and race type of the person.
So this skeleton belongs to a man, the age is within 35-40 years, the racial type is europeoid.
Even individual bones can be the object of age determination.
But the most informative is the skull, and then - the teeth.
More correctly, their degree of deterioration.
They allow you to more objectively and accurately determine the age with a special table.
The skeleton of this man was within 35-40 years.
And Zolotaryov should have turned 38 years old.
We also estimate the dental status.
We evaluate the traces of dental intervention.
Absolutely, the condition of the teeth corresponded to that described at the autopsy in 1959.
The same crowns of stainless steel on the same teeth.
Cor: There was one interesting crown.
SN: Yes, a kind of crown of the seventh tooth, the adjacent tooth was on the same root.
And this crown is on the second root.
These are the particulars of the dentist's approach.
Apparently, he decided that it would be most efficient to intervene in this way.
Cor: Can this false crown be a spy tab?
Sorry for this question, but it is asked on the forums.
SN: These are just features of the dental work.
The doctor decided to preserve the roots as much as possible, so that the person could chew more fully.
Galina Sazonova (GS): Are crowns like this common in places of detention?
(There is a version that instead of Semyon is buried a runaway convict - ed. note)
SN: There is nothing unusual in this dental work.
Somewhat above average.
Nothing remarkable or different.
Conventional crowns are made of stainless steel.
GS: I helped only at the first stage, when they were still cleaning the bones from the ground, working with a brush.
I did preliminary filtration of the bones.
I did not do the expert layout of the skeleton.
I have a question: where did the front tooth go?
SN: This loss occurred on April 12 this year, in the process of extracting the skull from the grave.
We did not have time to look for it.
He remained in the grave.
GS: Were there any other damajes to the skull?
SN: The skull was not damaged.
All the traumatas occurred on the chest.
GS: Why isn't there any hair?
SN: This is a particular phenomenon.
In some graves, hair is preserved under certain conditions.
Even after hundreds of years, hair is perfectly preserved.
And in other graves the hair is gone.
41093569034_7846e0eb91_o.jpg
Expert Sergey Nikitin washes the skull for the superimposition forensic method
PERFECT MATCH
Cor: Can you tell us more about the this forensic method, superimposition, that you are using?
SN: This method was developed in 1956 by Yuri Mikhailovich Kubitsky, a Soviet military expert.
He suggested that you can identify a person by putting a photographic image on the image of the skull.
The skull is on the stand in front of the camera.
At that time, the negative of the image was superimposed on the frosted glass of the viewfinder.
By rotating, moving the skull and moving away, approaching it with respect to the lens, the skull was inscribed along the points, the contours were compared.
And then we look at the conjunction of the contours.
Cor: What are the points where the images match?
SN: The main points are the ears, the corners of the eyes, under the nose, the point of the line of closure of the lips, under the chin, the contours of the parietal, the parietal-temporal, the temporal, the lower contour of the face.
There are a number of other points.
The maximum number of point to match are 24, if we have a high-quality photograph of a bald man and if the skull has no significant losses.
But for identification, 12 signs are sufficient provided that we know the sex of the person and his age.
In our case, there were 13 points.
This indicates those are the remains of Semyon Zolotaryov.
40911565025_052c0520b2_o.jpg
The portrait of Semyon and the image of his skull coincided in 13 main positions
HE WAS LAYING ON SOMETHING SOLID
GS: In 1959, the forensic pathologist described that there were two fracture lines of Zolotaryov ribs.
"After the extraction of the organs from the thoracic and abdominal cavities, fractures of the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth ribs on the right along the parasternal line and midaxillary line are determined."
How much did it coincide with what we saw?
SN: This coincided almost completely.
Except for a small minor amendment.
I would define the axillary line not as an average, but as a back axillary line.
Some bones were not examined.
We looked at the right shoulder blade, there were three fractures.
The act of this was not noted.
I assumed first that this is a posthumous injury.
The whole grave was covered with pieces of granite, the pressure on the bones of the skeleton can't be ignored.
But then I reassessed, because the left shoulder was intact.
If there were posthumous damages, it is logical to assume that both the left shoulder blade would be broken and in general would be other multiple fractures on the bones of the skeleton.
GS: Yes, we did not see damages like that.
We found much more fragile bones.
Even thyroid cartilage.
And the skull itself is not crushed.
It turns out that this weight had no effect on the bones.
SN: During the burial after the funeral the stones were laid to form a vault.
They didn't press down.
The ribs were broken on the right, and the right shoulder blade.
This fits into the mechanism of fracture of the ribs.
GS: Is it correct to say that the chest as a construction can have structural fractures?
In other words, one blow could cause several fractures?
SN: This indicates that at the contact zone, the impact exceeded the sizes from the first to the sixth rib.
It was a large heavy mass.
Most likely, snow.
GS: Can you determine when this injury took place?
40003189160_22fb096125_o.jpg
Photo of Zolotoryov's grave in 1959
SN: The presence of blood in the pleural cavity of Zolotaryov unequivocally indicates that he was alive.
GS: In what position was the person at the time of injury??
SN: It can be undoubtedly said that he was lying on his back.
And the traumatic effect occurred from front to back, maybe some what from right to left.
GS: The surface on which the person was lying was relatively firm?
SN: Yes.
It is unlikely that he was lying in the snow.
GS: You found that not all ribs are broken equally.
Is it possible to say that the force that acted on the thorax in full force acted where the ribs are completely broken?
And where they are not broken, it seems like the impact was lower?
SN: At a similar compression and at similar fractures on an axillary line of a rib have broken as a result of excessive bending.
This is called the flexural nature of the fractures.
In the parasternal line, the character of the fractures was extensor.
This suggests that the traumatic event occurred at the time when the person was lying on his back, and suggests the direction where the mass came from.
GS: Like as if squeezed a concrete slab? Or is it from the compression of a blow?
There is a version that a lot of snow has fallen.
SN: Was it impact or slow squeezing that took some time?
When the corpse is examined not to the extent of decomposition in which the corpse of Zolotaryov was at the time of the autopsy, there are soft tissues, subcutaneous fatty tissue, one can estimate the hemorrhage into the subcutaneous fatty tissue.
If it was a blow, we would see hemorrhages in the muscles and subcutaneous fatty tissue.
If this mass of the snow layer type squeezed gradually, it is unlikely that we would see hemorrhaging.
GS: Hemorrhages were noted at the autopsy.
And on histology, and in the act.
SN: This suggests that it was a sudden pressure, a velocity impact.
Not gradual.
Cor: It's like a blow, lets say, by a car?
SN: A car is a comparison.
In our case, we can say that this was the impact of a large mass.
GS: Could it be caused by explosive blast?
SN: It can be safely excluded.
Injuries would be of a different nature.
 
WHAT CAUSED THE FRACTURE?
Cor: On the tibia of the foot, a callus was found, which indicates an intravital fracture.
But there is an opinion that Semyon never had any injuries.
SN: During the investigation, a trace of a long-term intravital fracture of the right tibia in its middle part was found.
It is impossible to judge the limitation period of a fracture.
GS: Can you judge the nature of the healing from such callus?
SN: The two halves were aligned along the axis.
There was no dislocation.
The banal fracture.
Maybe he was formed in his childhood.
Zolotarev went through the whole war.
A bullet wound is unlikely, but we can't rule it out.
If the bullet shoots through the bone, it will be a defect - a shortening of the bone.
Photo of Semyon used by expert Sergey Nikitin for the skull superimposition
27942077458_1cbc0a3c5e_o.jpg
Photo of Semyon used by expert Sergey Nikitin for the skull superimposition
FROM THE AUTHORS
Could a tourist with such traumas walk a mile and a half along the slope?
We thank Sergey Nikitin and Galina Sazonova for an interesting conversation, and the work done.
We want to add that in the certificate of death of Semyon Zolotaryov, issued on May 12, 1959 by the Registry Office of Yekaterinburg, to his mother, it appears that he died from "low temperature."
As the results of the examinations show, this is not the whole truth.
After the broadcast, we asked additional questions to expert Nikitin, to clarify the picture of what happened.
  • If we assume that a huge layer of snow came on top of, lets say, Semyon Zolotaryov, when he was in the tent, could he move with injuries of this nature?
  • I think he might some how. But this is unlikely for Lyuda Dubinina. She had a much bigger deformity of the chest and her injuries were worse.
  • When Semyon was found in the stream, there was a camera on his chest. A pretty heavy thing in those times. Could he have gone with such injuries and with a camera around his neck?
  • It is unlikely that the camera prevented him from moving. But we can not say with certainty where he suffered the rib injury. You can speculate this scenario. In the creek were found two people with rib fractures and another with a trauma to the skull. Therefore, we can not exclude the version that they dug out the den in the ravine, but the snow collapsed and covered them.

 

However, we still have to thoroughly examine the nature of the injuries of Semyon's ribs.
We plan to conduct a more thorough examination of the skeleton based on photo and video materials that were shot during the exhumation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#911 fortyck

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Napisano 03 maj 2018 - 21:24

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Chicken a la Otorten
 
Text and photos from Vladimir Askinadzi personal archive and memoirs "We are the last of the Mohicans ..."
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Colonel Ortyukov was dubbed "Colonel Otorten" - morning briefing for the first half of the day
When they dropped us off with helicopters, we brought with us a large number of products.
We did not starve. Ortyukov, as a military man, created the institute of orderlies to prepared food, for which they were released on that day from searches.
I remember the feast of the 1st of May.
Ortyukov was persuaded to give us two days of rest, explaining that even the slaves in ancient Rome were given rest days.
He agreed.
He didn't have a choice.
He himself was tired to death.
After all, in addition to physical exertion, he had a load of very serious responsibility.
The authorities constantly pressed for results.
At this time, I suggested to Nikolai, the supervisor of the soldiers, to keep watch, so he can give rest to others.
We arranged a holiday dinner.
Here is a photo with me holding a partridge in my hand.
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Vladimir Askinadzi holding a partridge that will make their May 1st holiday dinner
We beat the partridge directly with ski poles.
These animals are absolutely not frightened!
All the dead birds were kept in the snow until the holidays.
We killed near dozen.
And here is a recipe for Otorten roast: take 1.5 kg of butter, melt it in a bucket (preferably not zinc), wait until when you throw a piece of meat it starts sizzling, put into the oil the whole gutted partridges.
If the oil doesn't cover all the meat, add the required amount.
The result is partridge fri (fried - ed. note).
Everyone liked the dish.
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Vladimir Askinadzi and Nikolay Kuznetzov cooking partridge a la Otorten
We tried again, this time with a grouse (that Kurikov caught - ed. note), and the result was as good.
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Askinadzi holding the grouse caught by Stepan Kurikov - on the photo from left Stepan Kurikov, Tolya Mohov, Vladimir Askinadzi and Vadim Fyodorov
But after dinner, we were on our own.
Our dog breeder, who didn't have a dog, therefore slept for days, was very fond of telling anecdotes, and his bed was in the far corner of the tent.
He liked telling anecdotes, but could not. A good anecdote can knock you down with one sentence, and his jokes could last for half an hour.
After a while he got on our nerves and we had no more patience.
We called at him "shut up !!", but he is like deaf, continues to babble, like a chanter.
He scrupulously described the clothes of the characters taking part in his story, what was the weather.
In general, he got fed up with him.
When we couldn't stand his jokes no more, somebody, and sometimes I, grabbed a felt boot and threw it into the dark corner.
It was impossible to miss.
It you threw the felt boot hard enough into the side of the tent, it slid down on the wall right onto the narrator.
This wasn't pleasant to those who lay closer to him, that included Ortyukov.
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Nikolay Kuznetzov, Yuri Delevich, Vladimir Askinadzi, Boris Suvorov and Tolya Mohov
Then in the evenings, we got tired, of course, and after dinner fell fast asleep without dreams.
We were young!
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Fooling around

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#912 fortyck

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Napisano 05 maj 2018 - 22:51

There is inconsistency even about the date when the last 4 bodies were found.

 

 

Case file sheet 386 says they were found on May 4.

 

We have two telegrams saying this happened on May 5th which is supported by "Protocol of the location of corpses" (sheet 341) made on May 6th when representatives of the Prosecutor's Office and the Investigation Department were notified, so most probably the date is May 5th.

 

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#913 fortyck

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Napisano 06 maj 2018 - 21:27

Zolotaryow's camera - Three heads

 

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Żródło: http://dyatlovpass.c...mera-zolotaryov



#914 fortyck

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Napisano 07 maj 2018 - 23:21

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Galina Sazonova - participant in Zolotaryov’s exhumation
Galina Sazonova in her own words:
“I am a doctor (GP pediatrician) with 20 yeas experience.
We moved to Vietnam in 2007, since that time I have been working in SOS International in Saigon .
I have a privet practice now.
I'm interesting in this story for 5 years now.
In 2014-2015 Russian official forensic expert Eduard Tumanov confirmed some of my suppositions about the traumas, but we didn't have enough information about the rib fractures to understanding how it was possible to get this injury.
Exhumation gave answers for some questions.
We saw the ribs and understood how each rib was fractured.
We established 3 fractures of the R scapula (Vozrozhdenny didn't describe this injuries in 1959).
Sergey Nikitin's conclusion is "it was one single impact, Zolotarev was laying on the back at that moment (scapula fractures)"
I don't agree
I suppose its could be two successive blows.
But I'm not expert
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GS: Sergey Nikitin is one of the famous specialist of scull reconstruction and body identification.
Please remember, that the main question of the exhumation was identification of the body.
Not assessment of traumas which regulated by different law.
We are lucky that soft tissue is not preserved and we could see the bones in excellent condition.
If soft tissue has been preserved we would not have the right to clean bones for examination.
Chest injury has to be seen as a complex, we are looking for a forensic expert specialized in this type of trauma assessment for second opinion.”
Q: It appears that you had limited time and the bones did not leave the cemetery.
GS: Any remains except a little piece of bone for further DNA tests, were laid back in the new grave.
The tomb of Zolotaryov is indeed Zolotaryov's grave.
And we tried to make a good job of putting everything back together with great respect.
This is purely to straighten the official records.
It had to be proven that this is his grave not just a piece of land with tombstone.
Now there will be a procedure to confirm that this is Zolotaryov's grave with the DNA comparison with the DNA of family members.
Only then, after the paperwork is properly filed in the registry will the family have the right to do anything with the grave or transfer the remains somewhere else, if they want to.
Q: Can it be established whether the damage to Zolotaryov's rib cage was made by one single impact, or several blows?
GS: According to expert Nikitin, this was a one-time sudden impact to a person lying on his back.
My opinion is that there could be two different strong blows.
We are currently seeking second opinions of other experts.
Ribs break down constructively due to a certain flexibility.
At the point of direct impact there will be an extensor fracture, but the rib will be slightly bent and at a certain distance there will be a remote flexural fracture forming a second line.
With a strong impact, two additional lines may appear as in this case.
Sergey Nikitin, forensic medical expert, says that that as a result of applying force on the front to the right of the sternum (extensor fractures), there will be structural flexion in the axillary line (these are the points of maximum physiological bending), and no questions about the shoulder blade on the back.
His theory is that Zolotaryov lies on his back, something presses from front to back, brakes the bones both in front and back.
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GS: And I do not agree with this. Firstly, it is not mentioned in any literature that as a result of such compression the scapula will break at all.
And secondly, Sergey Nikitin did not project this onto the skeleton as a whole, taking into account the position of the bones relative to each other.
And then the shoulder blade for some reason breaks where the ribs do not break.
My opinion is that Zolotaryov suffered two different blows.
First on the back to the area of ​​the protruding ridge.
The ridge is strong, withstood, but from it up and down went the cracks in the form of a triangle (this is the break from the blow on the shoulder and it is described a lot in the literature), and then there was a second blow - in the chest area.
GS: We expected that there would be zink (galvanized) coffin.
No traces of zink what so ever.
There was a lot of wood, but individual chips measuring up to 10-15 cm and up to 3-5 cm in thickness, and they crumbled into dust right away.
Yellowish orange. It is visible on the video, if you look closely.
The bones were not in a pile but the order expected to find a grave if the body was laid normally.
The bones of the legs were in one end of the grave, the skull - in the opposite.
The skull was almost the last piece we found, slightly on the side.
We searched for the tooth, but it can also be fallen into the dirt to the side.
The hole had no dirt whatsoever, and yet on the dirty lower jam you can't even see the "false" tooth cap.
The grave. First there was the earth.
Then the stones.
Then again the earth about 30 cm, very friable, almost sand.
And in it - bones.
There is the impression that they threw earth on the coffin, then stones and then again earth.
When we saw the stones, we were very much afraid that we will find everything crushed.
However, all the bones are in surprisingly excellent condition.
We even found the notorious thyroid cartilage (!) and it was not damaged.
Buttons are simple plastic, black.
Cheap, no studs.
The rope ...
I wouldn't call it a rope, but a narrow ribbon.
Either from a nylon, or from silk.
You know the kind that is denser on the edges?
The edge is dense.
When I get home I'll look online for something similar.
It doesn't look like a piece of clothing.
Gravediggers immediately said that his hands were tied together.
They have a great experience in exhumations.
They are a special dedicated team, not some not enthusiasts.
The shoe soles.
I can't say what were they made of.
Either skin, or a very dense feathered felt.
I somehow got the impression that these are special funerary slippers with a cloth top that decomposed.
Q: What's with the yellow orange color that persists throughout this whole case?
Do you have an explanation?
Can it be examined now that we can obtain a sample of it.
GS: You mean the orange color of the skin and clothes about which relatives talked about?
There can be no answer to this question now, because soft tissues have not been preserved at all, especially skin to give them for examination.
From clothes, too, there was nothing left, although for sure he was buried in other clothes, new.
Q: I meant in this paragraph you said the trigger word yellow orange color.
Nobody ask questions about this color?
It's orange again.
We expected that there would be zink (galvanized) coffin.
No traces of zink what so ever.
There was a lot of wood, but individual chips measuring up to 10-15 cm and up to 3-5 cm in thickness, and they crumbled into dust right away.
Yellowish orange.
It is visible on the video, if you look closely.
GS: No) this is what the rest of the tree looks like. In the beginning, in the first interview, Natalya said "there was no coffin."
She meant that the coffin was not preserved.
Then I wrote that we saw the remains of the coffin in the form of yellowish splinters.
Because then they will be able to see in the photo against the background of a darker land.
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GS: The rope ... I would not call it a rope, but a narrow ribbon.
Either from a nylon, or from silk.
Do you know when it's so denser on the edges?
The edge is dense. It looks like a piece of clothing.
Gravediggers immediately said - they tied their hands together.
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Natalya Varsegova posted in taina.li
Q: Was this rope tied in a knot(s) and found in the chest (or feet) area or was the rope loose in the grave?
What was the length of the rope?
There is a common practice to tie the hands and feet of the body in the coffin.
If old generation relatives are present they start fussing about untying the corpse so s/he can move freely in the in the afterlife.
If the corpse was bound, does it mean there were no relatives at the burial to prompt them to untie it.
But wait, the coffin was closed, so why to tie a corpse in a closed coffin?!
GS: Rope-ribbon.
I did not noticed when did it appeared.
The land was thrown by two workers, we chose bones from the land that had been dumped.
Precisely not at the very beginning, but also much earlier than the appearance of the skull.
We started from the feet and walked to the head.
It was taken out of the earth by someone else.
Shoe soles were the first find.
The tape is not wider than 1 cm.
It is narrow.
In my opinion has a certain stiffness.
Was there brilliance?
Rather yes.
But it's dirty.
How long is it?
Who knows, I did not measure and did not see that someone would measure.
It looked all right.
Someone said "look, a rope.
" The workers immediately answered "his hands were tied".
The rope was not interesting to investigate, there was much more at stake.
It did not cause any conspiracy questions.
Moreover, I will add.
When I sifted the earth, it seemed to me that there were fragments of strongly decayed black dense tissue.
I do not know how to explain.
This is until the clump of land is not shredded, you see some structure.
When you take it in your hands everything turns into dust.
I personally expected that he would be buried in a military tunic, with shoulder straps.
Those and the mood I had in this direction.
Nothing to confirm my hopes.
Guys, there is a picture you draw and what you expect.
We were expecting zinc.
We expected a completely different state of the remains, the type of the general's version from Turkey.
We discussed what we would do if we preserved the mummified soft tissues.
This was the worst option, because we could not see the fractures.
And, excuse me, no one was going to build a fire and boil the bones in a bowler hat.
Who watched the series of dice - will understand what I mean.
When the bones went, and even in the state in which they went, I personally sighed with relief, because this arrangement was the most informative.
Unlike other options.
If only a little soft cloth were preserved on the skull, the superimposition method would be in question.
What happened was the most ideal option in terms of assessing injuries.
We concentrated on injuries.
The rope is not important.
It's part of the clothes or a burying accessory.
Q: There are a lot of discussions how come Zolotaryov's teeth were stained as a smoker but he is not smoking on the photographs we have of him.
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Although Valentin Degterev (Валентин Дегтерёв) claims Zolotaryov is pulling a cigarette in this photo.
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GS: I do not see a problem.
Even if he did not smoke in 1959, it is not at all a fact that he did not smoke during the Second World War.
There really was a very specific plaque from the inside of the teeth, and I'm not sure that it would have been visible if there was gum.
Straight on the neck of the tooth.
Тhe expert mentioned the smoking right away.
We need to know that Nikitin doesn't follow Dyatlov case, he does not know anything about Semyon and evaluated him very impartially and professionally.
I generally admire the expert!
I have not been able to communicate with Tumanov (modern times forensic pathologist in Russia who revised the post mortem analyses of the last four bodies found) and there is no personal feeling.
Q: I know you mentioned that his grave seems to be in order, and that it's not likely that the case will be reopened, but do you think that if the experts deduce any sort of new evidence pointing to foul play that the Russian government may reopen it? Or do you think that this is simply unlikely due to the advance stage of decay in the body?
GS: Of course - no.
It didn’t make any difference if we found no body or 3 bodies in the grave, government has made the decision to close the case in 1959 and will continue keeping the secret.
GS: I don't think the grave was reopened.
Everything was done in 1959. Even if the grave was opened previously it could happened long time ago only while the body was still preserved.
It is impossible to put bones back to the grave in the position bones were found.
I was pretty sure we won’t not find the ribs. Semyon Zolotaryov autopsy report doesn’t say his chest was deformed.
But on this photo after the autopsy his chest looks very out of shape.
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Semyon Zolotaryov after the autopsy
Lyuda's chest on the other hand looks normal even though she has more fractures.
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Lyudmila Dubinina after the autopsy
It looks like Vozrozhdenny took out Zolotaryov’s rib's complex for additional investigation or tests.
I was surprised to see all the ribs in the grave without and traces of surgical manipulation.
Expert could have done it but he didn't.
 
 
 

You can ask questions here or

join Dyatlov Pass Forum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#915 fortyck

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Napisano 08 maj 2018 - 21:30

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The Researchers of the Ravine
The documents in the case file are pointing to different dates for when bodies of Dubinina, Zolotaryov, Kolevatov and Thibeaux-Brignolle are found.
The place seem to be well photographed, but you will be surprised how many discussions currently exist on the fact where exactly is this location.
Expeditions go, measure and build theories and models.
Here are some of them.
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Upper row: Vitaliy Kuznetsov (operator), Evgeniy Buyanov (writer), Aleksey Koskin (researcher); Middle row: Vladimir Borzenkov (researcher), Vladimir Makarov (tourist), Alexander Kuntsevich (tourist), Leonid Rokotyan (technician); Lower row: Anatoliy Mohov (search 1959), Yuri Kuntsevich (head of Dyatlov foundation), Yuri Yudin (10th member of Dyatlov group), Vladimir Shikobonga (scout, UPI student); August 12, 2008 - photographer Vitaliy Gavrichev (researcher)
 
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The image below is a blow up of the general area where the ravine is.
Researchers are using as check points some characteristic trees that appear on the 1959 photos form the search, but more than 5 decades past before any attempts were made to pin point the location.
Why is that so important?
Because the terrain could give hints as for:
  • What is the easiest way to reach the den and to transport branches for the den
  • Were the bodies injured at this very place or were they transported from some place else
  • If moved from another place - how could it be done (from the slope, from the den, etc.)
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Cedar tree
 
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Triple tree
 
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Ficus
 
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Den (настил - russ.)
 
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Four in the ravine
 
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Location of the den according to Alexeenkov (Shura) and Sasha KAN
 
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Eastern and western sides of the creek. The green are the banks. LD head is pointing South
 
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Measurements taken in 2016 KAN expedition The stick painted in red and white can be seen in video by Alexeenkov (September 2012) embedded below (here is a frame), not to be confused with the pole with red from the photos (2016).
P4 is the stone 3m upstream (South) from the den.
M4 on some photos is where the bodies were found, point "1" on the profile
The numbered episodes from this video shot by Alexeenkov (Sasha) are marked with circles on the map below.
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Video

 

Video by Alexeenkov (Shura) https://www.youtube....aylist?list=...
September 2012. The creek https://www.youtube....MMEO0s&list=... 5:35 – 6:23: View on bodies-den location from the lower part of the creek 7:52 – 8:20: View on bodies-den location from the upper part of the creek
March 2013. The creek https://www.youtube....h?v=I_f_F1zTjSw 8:34 – 9:33: View on bodies-den location from the lower part of the creek 11:40 – 12:55: View on bodies-den location from the right (eastern) bank of the creek
February 2014 https://www.youtube....h?v=sH-3jOO9QI0 00:05 – 00:35: View on bodies location from the den location
https://www.youtube....h?v=FAuxkkISqmI 10:52 – 11:17: View from the den location and lower then bodies location
 

Photos

 

Photos by КАН in a forum http://russia-parano....php?topic=4361
Photos by КАН (Expedition 2016) https://fotki.yandex...1/album/546341/
 

Map of the ravine by Vladimir Borzenkov

 

Vladimir Borzenkov has presented his version of events in the fateful night forum.dyatlovpass.com.
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Ravine by Vladimir Borzenkov
Legend
  1. The first right (near) stream inflow to 4 triburaty to Lozva
  2. The second right (distant) stream inflow to 4 triburaty to Lozva
  3. The left stream inflow to 4 triburaty to Lozva
  4. Where the clothes are found near the cedar
  5. The expedition in 2009 found a knife presumambly dropped there in 1959
  6. This is where the 4 bodies were found in May 1959 according to the version of some researchers
  7. The location where the 4 bodies were found in May 1959 according to my version. Here is a sudden fall in the 4 triburaty to Lozva. It corresponds better to the photo made in 1959. Another consideration is the position of the sun on the known pictures from 1959 and the time the pictures was taken.
  8. Place of a high slope (8 m or 26 ft heights)
  9. Th epoint from which this photo was taken in March 1959
  10. Mouth of the second right (distant) stream
  11. Search team camp in May 1959
  12. Area of deep snow in February 1959. Without having skis Dyatlov team could not have pass any further.

 

Notes from the editor:
  • Vladimir Borzenkov came up with a method for drawing maps on the spot. All the maps of this type are his. Other researchers draw on top of them their versions and that is why sometimes altitudes and GPS coordinates don't seem to be possible. That's because they all use Borzenkov's map but their own measurements which Vladimir says often happen without inputting error measurements into amateur and civil GPS devices.
  • More detailed map by Vladimir Borzenkov.
  • In all his maps there is a red or purple arrow across the map pointing to N, which I have removed on the images on this site. This is the magnetic North which on this particular place is 19,5°. Please refer to the forum for the detailed explanation he had offered on all this.

 

 
How did the events unflod
"Lyuda, Semyon and Alexander Kolevatov found wounded Tibo on the third stone ridge (there where the lantern on Maslennikov's scheme is designated) and carry him from there following the easiest and most even way.
In this area this is the most probable way.
They have come on a place which I have marked as "Place of crash".
From there the cedar is well visible in the afternoon.
At night the reflexion of the fire lit by Georgiy and Yuri will be well visible.
From the top the edge of the slope of white snow against white snow is badly visible.
When they walked further ahead they didn't notice it and while carrying Tibo the whole group have rolled down the slope.
Lyuda and Semyon were injured.
Only Alexander Kolevatov remained mobile and carried all three in the direction of the fire.
Kolevatov made a temporary den to lay them down on branches and not directly on the snow, so he can move them one by one to the fire. he went to the fire, saw Georgiy and Yuri have died, gathered some clothes to bring back to the injured in the den and lost some pieces in the process of returning back.
These two pieces of clothing were found in May before the bodies were found.
The work Kolevatov did was very exhausting, he didn't manage to transfer not a single person form the den to the fire.
The strength of a man is not infinite even in survival mode."
 
Map of the ravine by Alexey Rakitin
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Map by Alexey Rakitin - authour of the book "Dyatlov Pass" 1 - cedar, 2 - cut pants and sweaters, 3 - bodies 4 - the den. "P" the direction to the tent. Distances: R1 - the distance from the cedar to the edge of the forest, R2 - the shortest distance from the cedar to the ravine, R3 - the distance from the cedar to the cut pants and sweater, R4 - the distance from the cut pants and sweater to where the bodies were found, R5 - the distance between the bodies and the den, R6 - the distance from the den to the cedar. The blue dashed lines show the area where the fir trees where crushed to carry branches for the flooring of the den.
 
Map of the ravine by Mihail Sharavin
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Map by Mihail Sharavin
Map by Mihail Sharavin - member of the search party that found the first bodies of Doroshenko and Krivonishenko, 2m from the cedar, the tree being between the tent and the bodies.
When the bodies of Dubinina, Kolevatov, Thibeaux-Brignolle and Zolotaryov were found Sharavin made a note of what he thought is the location of the bodies, a reconstruction made by NAVIG in 2009 shows den and bodies north-west from the tree and not south-east as shown in Rakitin's map.
Why are these maps so important?
The slop of the ravine has a 5-7 m drop to a rock bottom of creek 1 (on Sharavin's map) which could have let to a dangerous fall in the dark and caused the traumas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#916 fortyck

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Napisano 08 maj 2018 - 21:39

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#917 fortyck

fortyck

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Napisano 09 maj 2018 - 21:27

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May 9 - last 4 autopsy reports
The header image is from “Dyatlov Pass - end of story” where Eduard Tumanov - modern times forensic pathologist in Russia who revised the post mortem analyses of the last four bodies.
In this movie Tumanov says:
“In Sverdlovsk, there is one of the best and largest Forensic Bureau in the former Soviet Union, having some of the high-level experts at the time.
I would say this is true even nowadays.
And then, you see, why prevents the head of the bureau or his deputy from the expertise division to assign a forensic physician.
And fly to Ivdel with two experts.
Vozrozhdenny could have helped them with the autopsy, gather some experience.
Why was everybody satisfied with a young forensic doctor with only 2 years of experience.
Another strange thing was that the operations in the Ivdel morgue were carried out under personal control of the district prosecutor Nikolay Klinov.
He was not only supervising but also signed the autopsy reports.
This si unheard of.
The head prosecutor of the region leaves everything to supervise the autopsies.
Vozrozhdenny at the time has been tried for anti-Soviet agitation and propaganda and then given amnesty.
You understand that in those years an amnesty is conditional and uncertain.
Most likely they needed to be able to control him.”
 

Lyudmila Dubinina (20)

 

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Lyudmila Dubinina post mortem in Ivdel hospital
Lyudmila wore a short sleeve shirt, long sleeve shirt, and two sweaters.
The brown sweater belonged to Krivonischenko - one of the two found beneath the cedar, and lately tested radioactive.
The body was dressed with underwear, long socks, two pairs of pants.
External pair was badly damaged by fire and subsequently ripped.
She also wore a small hat and two pairs of warm sock.
A third sock was not paired.
Lyudmila apparently in the last attempt to preserve her feet took off her sweater and cut it in two pieces.
One half she rapped around her left foot.
Another half she left or dropped unintentionally on the snow.
27133290047_be3d332610_o.png
Lyudmila Dubinina injuries
  1. soft tissues are missing around eyes, eyebrows, nose bridge and left cheek bone is partially exposed
  2. damaged tissues around left temporal bone, size 4x4 cm
  3. eye sockets are empty, eyeballs are missing
  4. nose cartilages are broken and flattened
  5. soft tissues of the upper lip are missing, teeth and and upper jaw is exposed
  6. tongue is missing
  7. ribs 2, 3, 4, 5 are broken on the right side, two fracture lines are visible
  8. ribs 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 are broken on the left side, two fracture lines are visible
  9. massive hemorrhage in the heart's right atrium
  10. bruise in the middle left thigh, size 10x5 cm (not shown on diagram)

 

Dubinina was laying on a kind of a natural ledge with water rolling over it.
Her mouth was open.
There are claims that the tongue was ripped, or eaten, or whatnot.
The medical records simply that "the tongue is missing".
Vozrozhdenny describes missing hypoglossal muscle as well as muscles of the floor of the mouth.
It looks weird especially given the fact previous bodies had more detailed autopsies.
There is no credible explanation for this vague statement.
Although it is mentioned that the stomach contained about 100 g of coagulated blood.
It is used by some as an indication that the heart was beating and the blood was flowing when tongue was removed from a mouth.
The cause of death is stated as hemorrhage into right atrium of the heart, multiple fractured ribs and internal bleeding.
Medical examination shows that Lyuda was not sexually active at the time of her death.
This fact is only relative to the fact that whoever did the crime did not sexually assault the girls, or the men as a matter of fact.
 

Semyon Zolotaryov (37)

 

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Semyon Zolotaryov post mortem in Ivdel hospital
The body of Semyon Zolotaryov was found at the Dyatlov Pass with two hats, scarf, short, long sleeve shirt, black sweater and a coat with two upper buttons unbuttoned.
It was fairly clear that the guy didn't die from the cold.
On the contrary the den was pretty warm place for him.
His lower part of the body was protected by underwear, two pairs of pants and a pair of skiing pants.
He had a copy of newspapers, several coins, compass, and other few items.
His legs were protected by a pair of socks and a pair of warm leather hand made shoes known as "burka".
They probably couldn't keep him warm for a long time, but in the den it was sufficient in keeping the man alive.
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Semyon Zolotaryov injuries
  1. eye balls are missing
  2. missing soft tissues around left eye brow, size 7x6 cm, bone is exposed
  3. open wound on the right side of the skull with exposed bone, 8x6 cm in size
  4. flail chest, broken ribs 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 on the right side, two fracture lines

 

Additionally the body of Zolotaryov had a camera around his neck as it is clearly seen on the pictures.
According to hearsay that this camera became a complete surprise to Yuri Yudin.
That he assumed the group had only four cameras that were found in the tent.
And all of a sudden a fifth camera turned out on the body.
Unfortunately melting water damaged the film.
But the question still lingers.
Why did Zolotaryov left the tent with the camera and why did he take two cameras to the trip?
One was used on daily basis and everyone saw it.
It was left in the tent and discovered there by the search party, but another was hidden throughout the journey and was found only after Semen Zolotarev have died.
The film was damaged by water so the question remains:
"What was so important that he captured on the slope of the mountain that day?"
He was also found holding a pen in one hand and a small notepad in the other.
Vladimir Askinadzi recalls that Colonel Ortyukov grabbed the notepad, looked at it, cursed and said:
"He’s written nothing."
He seems to be the only one that has seen the notepad.
The whereabouts of this notepad is unknown, it was never filed in evidence or seen by anyone else.
On the other hand we hear only from Askinadzi about the whole episode with the pen, notepad and Colonel Ortyukov, and that 59 years after the fact in a recent letter of Askinadzi to Ural Pathfinder magazine.
Both Zolotarev and Dubinina have an interesting pattern of injuries.
They are very similar in direction and force despite difference in shape, height and body composition of the two.
This would suggest that whatever caused these injuries was not a single uniform event.
Еxcerpt from the interrogation of forensic expert of the Regional Forensic Investigation Bureau Boris Vozrozhdenny led by Junior Counselor of Justice and Criminal Prosecutor of Sverdlovsk region, Lev Ivanov, on May 28, 1959:
How is it possible to explain the cause of the damage to Dubinina and Zolotaryov?
Is it possible to combine them into one cause?
I think the character of the wounds on Dubinina and Zolotaryov – a multi-splintered fracture of the ribs – on Dubinina were bilateral and symmetrical, and on Zolotaryov were one-sided.
Both had hemorrhaging into the cardiac muscle with hemorrhaging into the pleural cavity, which is evidence of them being alive [when injured] and is the result of the action of a large force, similar to the example used for Tibo.
These wounds, especially appearing in such a way without any damage to the soft tissue of the chest, are very similar to the type of trauma that results from the shock wave of a bomb.
How long could Dubinina and Zolotaryov have lived?
Dubinina died 10-20 minutes after the trauma.
She could have been conscious.
Sometimes it happens that a person with a wound to the heart (for example, a serious knife wound) can talk, run and ask for help.
Dubinina’s situation was one of complicated traumatic shock resulting from the bilateral rib fracture, with subsequent internal hemorrhaging into the pleural cavity.
Zolotaryov could have lived longer.
It needs to be taken into account that they were all trained, physically fit, and strong people.
 

Alexander Kolevatov (24)

 

The body of Aleksander Kolevatov was well insulated, but he was missing a hat and shoes.
His upper torso was protected by a sleeveless shirt, long sleeved shirt, sweater, fleece sweater and ski jacket with a zipper and buttons.
Ski jacket was damaged.
A big hole on the left sleeve had burnt edges and measured 25x12x13 cm.
His right sleeve was also damaged.
Several tears 7-8 cm were found.
The jacket was unbuttoned and unzipped.
A strange finding for person who was supposedly dying from cold and hypothermia.
During autopsy following objects were retrieved from his pockets: key, safety pin, some blank paper (probably to keep a record of his thoughts or events) and two packages of pills (soda and codeine).
The lower part of the body had shorts, light pants, ski pants and another pair of canvas pants.
From the right pocket doctors retrieved a box of matches that was soaked wet.
His feet as it was mentioned had no shoes, but they were protected by home knitted woolen socks with sights of fire damage.
His right foot was also protected by a light sock underneath a woolen one.
His left foot had similar three socks.
Additionally a bandage was discovered on the left ankle, but it was probably put before the Dyatlov Pass Incident since the group left their first aid kit in the tent.
The waistband of his sweater and the lower parts of his trousers later tested radioactive.
42002788911_79f2a79e33_o.png
Aleksander Kolevatov injuries
  1. lack of soft tissues around eyes, eyebrows are missing, skull bones are exposed
  2. broken nose
  3. open wound behind ear, size 3x1.5 cm
  4. deformed neck
  5. diffuse bleeding in the underlying tissues of the left knee (not shown on diagram)
  6. softened and whitened skin (maceration) of the fingers and feet, sign consisted with putrefaction in a wet environment
  7. overall skin had a gray green color with a tinge of purple

 

This autopsy had similar strange silence about the injuries of the victim.
Broken nose, open wound behind the ear and deformed neck might be the result of a fight and be cause of death.
On the other hand it could have been caused by natural elements since the body was exposed to nature for three whole months.
Yet the doctor ignores this matter and doesn't try to explain the reason for these strange injuries.
We should probably add that snapped neck and blow behind the ear is a common sign of killing performed by special forces.
However we can't be sure about this since the autopsy report didn't specify any more details about the body.
We are left guessing on the nature and origin of these injuries.
 

Nikolai Thibeaux-Brignolle (23)

 

Nikolay Thibeaux-Brignolle was well protected against coldness of Siberian winter.
It was suggested that he and Zolotarev might have been outside of the tent at the time mysterious threat struck them.
This explains why both tourists wore shoes and were covered by several layers of clothes.
Both men were much better prepared than the rest of the group when they were forced to abandon their tent.
Nikolay wore a canvas fur hat and home knitted woolen hat.
Upper body was protected from coldness by shirt, wool sweater worn inside out and a fur jacket on a sheepskin.
Woolen gloves were found in the right pocket along with three coins, comb and several pieces of paper.
Lower part of the body was protected by underwear, sweat pants, cotton pants and ski pants.
On his feet he wore hand-knitted woolen socks and a pair of felt boots (valenki), Russian winter shoes perfect for Siberian coldness.
Additionally Nikolay Thibeaux-Brignolle wore two watches on his left arm.
One stopped at 8:14 and another at 8:39.
Cadaveric spots were discovered on the back of the upper body, neck and upper extremities.
Face hair length up to 1cm.
42002788761_ac3d4e39d2_o.png
Nikolai Thibeaux-Brignolle injuries
  1. multiple fractures to the temporal bone, with extensions to the frontal and sphenoid bones, the close up of the fractures to the skull is shown on the picture
  2. bruise on the upper lip on the left side
  3. hemorrhage on the lower forearm, size 10x12 cm

 

Vozrozhdenny, who undertook the autopsy, excluded accidental fall on the rock as a possible cause for such a massive and unusual fracture.
From what kind of force could Tibo have received such damage?
In the conclusion, it’s shown the damage to Tibo’s head could have been the result of the throwing, fall or jettisoning of the body.
I don’t believe these wounds could have been the result of Tibo simply falling from the level of his own height, i.e. falling and hitting his head.
The extensive, depressed, multi-splintered (broken fornix and base of the skull) fracture could be the result of an impact of an automobile moving at high speed.
This kind of trauma could have occurred if Tibo had been thrown and fallen and hit his head against rocks, ice, etc., by a gust of strong wind.
Is it possible that Tibo was hit by a rock that was in someone’s hands?
In this case, there would have been damage to the soft tissue, and this was not evident.
How long could Tibo have lived after the trauma.
Could he have moved on his own, talked, etc.?
After this trauma, Tibo would have had a severe concussion; that is, he would have been in an unconscious state.
Moving him would have been difficult and, close to the end, movement would not have been possible.
I believe he would not have been able to move even if he had been helped.
He could only have been carried or dragged.
He could have shown signs of life for 2-3 hours.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#918 fortyck

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Napisano 12 maj 2018 - 22:39

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The last 4 funerals - 59 years to the day
On May 12 Lyudmila Dubinina, Alexander Kolevatov and Nikolai Thibeaux-Brignolle were buried in Mikhailovskoe Cemetery, in a plot designated to UPI.
Semyon Zolotaryov's funeral was a few days after May 12.
It was delayed so his mother could attend.
She had to travel from Krasnodar to Sverdlovsk.
Semyon Zolotaryov, since he was not a UPI contingent, was buried in Ivanovskoe cemetery where Yuri Krivonischenko was rested in peace on March 9.
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Funerals 12 May 1959, relatives behind Alexander Kolevatov coffin
 
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Alexander Kolevatov wreath in front at 12 May 1959 funerals
 
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Alexander Kolevatov funeral 12 May 1959
Zolotaryov had no relatives or friends in Sverdlovsk, and it was Sogrin who identified his belongings.
Before joining Dyatlov group Zolotaryov enlisted in Sogrin group for a trek to Circumpolar Ural that would have lasted 25 days.
Zolotaryov needed the title Master of Sports which would have reflected his pay and this trek could have given him the qualification.
Sogrin describes him as a very open, outgoing, polite, with good communication skills which is expected for a guide.
Semyon explained to Sogrin that he found a shorter trek (15 days) and that Igor Dyatlov accepted him n the group.
Semyon apologized for the situation and explained that he has family reason - he wanted to take his mom to Caucasus before the begging of the touristic season when he will be busy.
Zolotaryov’s mother came from Krasnodar to Sverdlovsk to collect his belongings in April, as she was told to, before her son was found.
It’s known she was not in Sverdlovsk in May when the bodies arrived. It’s likely that the authorities guessed the body was that of Zolotaryov by the process of elimination.
I have to mention that all the known photographs of Zolotaryov are from as late as 1943.
Recent exhumation of Zolotaryov's body on 12 April 2018 was preceded by 1 year effort to obtain a permit since there was no record of Semyon Zolotaryov being ever buried in Ivanovskoe cemetery, or anywhere else in Sverdlovsk.
So it is hard to say when exactly was his funeral, but witnesses remember that it was a few days after May 12.
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Semyon Zolotaryov grave when he was buried in May 1959
This time no one called Yudin to identify the bodies.
The secrecy grew tremendously.
Yuri Yudin, according to his words, was told 40 years later about the terrible internal injuries some of his friends had.
There is a controversy about the non-disclosure.
Even if there was a non-disclosure why nobody say anything earlier.
On the other hand, there is undercurrent that KGB was warning that bad things are going to happen to people that try.
  • Korotaev in a interview says that he and everybody present on the pass had to sign a non-disclosure for 25 years. But the fact is that he was never on the pass. He gave a lot of information that can not be verified. Here is an audio link with his voice.
  • Gushtin book "The price of a Govsecret - 9 lives"
 
The last 4 bodies found in May were buried in closed coffins, unlike the ones found in February, which were buried in open coffins as is the usual practice in Russia to this day, except for military deaths.
Many years later, in the 1990s, Lev Ivanov, the official investigator for the case, apologized for preventing the parents from dealing with their loved ones in a proper way, not even being allowed to see the faces of their children.
But the reasons for his decision are not just based in secrecy.
In an interview given to a Kazakh newspaper in the 1990s, after his retirement, Lev Ivanov said he had made one exception for Alexander Nikolaevich, the father of Lyudmila Dubinina.
While she was in the coffin in the morgue, he let her father enter, and permitted someone to open the lid so that he could see her.
When he saw his daughter’s corpse, he fainted.
Witness testimony of Alexander Dubinin given on April 14 (Case files pages 284-287).
This is before the body of his daughter was found.
"Till the day I still can believe that this could happened in the Soviet Union, that in this large industrial and cultural center of the country, could exist such a criminal disregard for preserving the lives of a whole group of people...
Those heartless leaders were never concerned that eight days after the planned return date at Vizhay, there was no contact, yet nobody did anything and search was rescue operations started on the 21 February."
In 1962, next to their graves in Mikhailovskoe Cemetery, a monument was erected with pictures of all nine members of the group.
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Dyatlov group monument erected in 1962 in Mikhailovskoe Cemetery, Sverdlovsk
Also in 1962, on that pass on Kholat Syakhl mountain, a group led by Valentin Yakimienko set a memorial plaque saying.
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Dyatlov group memorial plaque on Kholat Syakhl mountain, Northern Urals
“In memory of those who left and did not return, we name this pass on Dyatlov group”
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Dyatlov group memorial plaque on Kholat Syakhl mountain, Northern Urals
 

 

The pass has been called Dyatlov Pass ever since.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#919 fortyck

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Napisano 15 maj 2018 - 21:33

The construction on the photo is a dam (плотина), which Colonel Ortyukov decided to build shortly after the first photo was taken and not long before they found the last four bodies.

 

The current in the creek was very strong and the rescuers had fears that the still missing last four bodies, if they lie in a creek, they can be rushed down to the fourth tributary of the Lozva river.

 

This dam was built by rescuers at the place, where the creek flows into the fourth tributary of Lozva river.

 

bottom row: Colonel Ortyukov, Delevich and Fyodorov


2nd row: Askinadzi, Suvorov, after next Kuzminov


top: the "lazy dog breeder" in Askinadzi's memoir "We are the last of the Mohicans ..."

 

 

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#920 fortyck

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Napisano 16 maj 2018 - 21:45

Oleg Nikolaevich Arhipov, author of a monograph on forensic experts in the Dyatlov case, claims to have found a memo dating 15.II.1959 which testifies of the fact that Vladimir Ivanovich Korotaev, the first investigator of Dyatlov case was in cahoots with Vasiliy Ivanovich Tempalov, the Prosecutor in the criminal case to cover the fact that they knew of the death of the students (15.II.1959) before they were found (27.II.1959).

 

"Vladimir Ivanovich (Korotaev - ed. note)

I am called to report to the deputy prosecutor of the RSFSR (Leonid Ivanovich Urakov - ed. note) in the criminal case of the death of the tourists, and I will be in Sverdlovsk for 2-3 days, so I ask you to look and see that everything is in order.

 

Please take care of the people court claims, If you send cases for further investigation or acquittal, appeal against the verdict also in a 5-day period.

 

All cases are true.

 

In addition, on the instructions of the regional prosecutor to interrogate the chief of the logging branch of Vizhay Hakimov whether the leader of the tourist group (who died) said that they will return to Vizhay not on 12.II. 59 but 15.II.59.

 

This needs to be done faster.

 

I'll call you from Sverdlovsk.

 

 

15.II.59 (crossed out) 16.II.59.

 

When Reeba is sentenced, if acquitted or the case is sent for further investigation, you must file a contest.


Greetings Procecutor Tempalov. 15.II.59"

 

 

 

Komsomolskaya Pravda article https://www.ul.kp.ru.../26829/3869201/ goes further on about the authenticity of the note and if there could be a typo - the month of march III to have been misspelled as II.

 

We know that the case is dating 6.II. because the same typo allegedly occur on Vasiliy Popov's testimony. 

 

https://dyatlovpass.com/case-files-048

 

 

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Vasiliy Ivanovich Tempalov, the Prosecutor in the criminal case

 

 

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Vladimir Ivanovich Korotaev, the first investigator of Dyatlov case

 

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Vladimir Ivanovich (Korotaev - ed. note)

I am called to report to the deputy prosecutor of the RSFSR (Leonid Ivanovich Urakov - ed. note) in the criminal case of the death of the tourists, and I will be in Sverdlovsk for 2-3 days, so I ask you to look and see that everything is in order. Please take care of the people court claims, If you send cases for further investigation or acquittal, appeal against the verdict also in a 5-day period. All cases are true.

In addition, on the instructions of the regional prosecutor to interrogate the chief of the logging branch of Vizhay Hakimov

 

 

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whether the leader of the tourist group (who died) said that they will return to Vizhay not on 12.II. 59 but 15.II.59.

This needs to be done faster. I'll call you from Sverdlovsk.
15.II.59 (crossed out) 16.II.59. When Reeba is sentenced, if acquitted or the case is sent for further investigation, you must file a contest.
Greetings Procecutor Tempalov.
15.II.59

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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